Monticello Monday Sucked!!!

God I miss running track days in the MA Region. Remembering those days at FUSA when the chrome would roll in as the sun was rising over the NASCAR garages. Just about the same time I would get the first of many customers of the day complaining about not being able to sign up directly into A class. Then their buddies would form a circle and start vouching for them en masse. I miss the hum of the crash truck followed closely by the rap rap rap of the rotor blades of the medevac chopper. The warm, loving manner in which the Pocono staff would tell you that you were trash that they put up with only to keep the lights on in between NASCAR events. The Pocono "Safety" Crew, constantly threatening over the radio to throw out bike number X for doing a wheelie down the back straight. The absolutely delightful food served in the cafeteria. Inevitably all this fun and frolicing would come to an end when the first rider of the day had to be ejected from the premises for doing something so stupid you were absolutely sure you were being Punkd and the camera was just around the corner (one year it was for coming to a stop on the banking, getting of the bike and checking the tension of the chain.) The incredulous look you would get from someone when you chastised them for running a pack of 4 bikes off the track and onto the surface of the moon that doubled for runoff. Then realising the look was because they had no idea what you were saying and needed to call over an interpreter to translate. How do you say "douche nozzle" in Serbian again? (No offense to any Serbs on here. I totally picked that out of the blue.) FUsa I will surely miss you.

 

Wow Dutch, you nailed it on the head. Might want to throw in a reference to the lovely weather, although most FUSA days where in August. Hot and humid was pretty predictable.

My favorite was back in the Reduc days when a leather vested gang of Busa riders rolled in expecting to take a few laps around the track. No gear, just the leather vests and some determination. I think they almost made it out to hot bit on their own.

By the way, where exactly is the MA region?

 

did not attend either, but...

class act reply Lance

 

Maybe the STT management should come to the Annual NESBA Directors meeting and take notes.

Seems to me that the other underlying theme in this thread is that NESBA's set the bar for all other track day orgs...but we already all knew that a LONG time ago.

 

Just curious, how many clubs have you ridden with?

I've done at least two events with four different track day providers. They all offer the same thing; track time. It might come in a slightly different wrapper from each club, but it's the same basic toy inside. And for an FYI, I've never done a date with either STT or NESBA, so I'm not shaking pom-pom's for anybody.

I don't know what you do for a living, but to make this easy, let's say you're a lawyer. What if Monte and Dave stood in front of your business without ever approaching you for legal services and started telling every potential client that you don't know what you're doing, go to Metzger Wickersham.

Cheerleading for a trackday provider is about the same as arguing which is better mcdonald's or burger king. Pick your packaging and move on.

[/rant]
[firesuit]

 

You'd think the "gate fees" STT charges you at tracks that don't impose a gate fee would go towards a PA system for tracks that don't have them, like Monticello. So people aren't sitting in hot pit for 20 minutes during a overbooked, under-regulated crashfest that leads to nobody knowing when they are suppose to go out there. What a fucking joke.

 

Mid Atlantic. I heard about the Busa rider incident. I think Speedy was track marshal at that event. I can imagine he got a little, uhm, animated with them on pit out.

 

I haven't ridden with other orgs..I got it right the first time. :up:

Many of my friends have experimented with other orgs...they keep coming back with, "They're not NESBA."

And you're EXACTLY right...it's a BUSINESS for most of the other orgs. They have to book enough riders to cover all expenses, make the books go in the black plus so that the business is profitable so they can take enough off the top to put a profit in their pockets. NESBA is a non-profit. All the Directors have jobs outside of NESBA to sustain their lifestyles and families. They help run NESBA on a volunteer basis. As far as I know, none of my track day fees that generate positive revenue for NESBA above expenses after an event go into a Director's personal checking account. It goes into NESBA's piggy bank to all them to offer members things like half day credits and the occasional refund when it's raining so severely that riding's deemed unsafe for the day. Not much when one considers the expenses incurred to get to an event..but nice nonetheless. I once drove from Baltimore to Road America to get completely cock-blocked for the track day by fog...After driving 1200 miles do you think the $175 I got back from NESBA helped my disappointment?

I've ridden with NESBA since 2002 and over 80 track days. I EARNED my A group sticker in July 2009. I didn't SIGNUP in A group because Intermediate was full and I felt I could hang with the fast guys. I was evaluated carefully and promoted based on multiple Control Rider's opinions based on a lot of observation time (I do around 15 days a year now).

I've been to some completely booked events with the Advanced group at NESBA events at Summit Point, Road Atlanta and Barber. NEVER seen an A group cluster f*ck like is being depicted here. It has always been very fast...very clean riding.

It's not all the rider's faults...I partially blame the organization's group structure policy. They let the, "A groups full..I can hang with the fast guys. A group's open....I'll ride with A group now."...so CUSTOMERS sign up in A, and maybe they try to "hold their own" or "keep up". And, they crash.

But, all the groups were full at this event...they got their numbers..the day was profitable and thus they get forum post threads like this. How many CUSTOMERS were lost for the long term because they wadded their bike and cannot ride. How many are lost because they see a forum discussion like this one?

 

To be clear, NESBA isn't perfect either. Each has their faults. Before I stopped track days, I was doing check out rides to get back to intermediate with NESBA. I had been intermediate the year before but dropped back to help some friends that were just starting.

Each time of three different times, I would go on the check out ride. Everything would go fine, but then I would have to find the instructor to see how I did and if I could go back up. Each time, and I'm not exaggerating, three separate times, they said "well, it looked okay. If you come back out tomorrow, we will see about bumping you up."

I don't do full weekend trackdays. Had to work in between. I asked about them noting it for the next time on my registration. Each time, no.

So let's see, if I invest in a second day on three separate occasions, they would move me up the next day. But couldn't write it on their records. That didn't go well with me.

 

Well said!!!:up:

 

The great thing about track day orgs is that they provide customers with an almost unlimited choice when it comes to chosing which one fits an individuals preferances and goals. It's not, and never will be, one size fits all. Each org has its own personality. Some will like one over the other for alot of very valid reasons. Some folks like very structured and controled events, while others prefer an open track format with little or no supervision. And that's ok. There are plenty of people putting on track days and one of them is bound to come close to meeting a person's needs. I've told people over the years when I was a NESBA director that maybe we just weren't the right fit for them and that their needs might be better served with another org. This wasn't meant to be taken as me being arrogant or insensitive to the situation at hand. As an organization you have to have a philosophy of how you are going to run your events and serve your market. This means that you WILL alienate a certain subsection of potential customers. Altering your core philosophy to make one person happy will contradict your mission statement and said philosophy. Do it enough times and you lose sight of your mission and the philosophy becomes watered down and empty. If you get it right you will develop a solid customer. Get it wrong and you develop a rep as being something else. For these reasons I've never given much stock to people who come out against a certain org for one reason or another. To me they just aren't aligning themselves with the org who can best suit their needs. It's not an easy thing to do, getting it right. You get slammed on message boards for not catering to some folks. I'm not talking about basic customer service issues, but things like "I want to bump down for the day to ride with my buddies." In NESBA that isn't allowed. For better or worse that is how we do things. Another org may do things differently and allow the practice. It's up to each rider to decide which hamburger they like best. And it's up to the track day orgs to make sure they serve the same hamburger every time.

I've had my share of total cluster fuck events over the years. They happen. The hardest thing to realize is you can't get on the bike and ride it for them. You can be proactive in your policies and try to prevent an environment within which these type of days occur, but you can't control who signs up for the event or how boneheaded they will ride once they turn a wheel on the track. I'm pretty sure everyone who signed up for this event knew ahead of time the policies of STT and how they run their days. It sounds like to me STT is taking the complaints seriously and looking at how they do things in order to prevent it from happening again. Witness Lance's post. From an operational standpoint I think they will do whatever they need to in order to assure that this doesn't happen again. But what some of you are complaining about is what STT owns as their core philosophy in running track days. Judging by their success there are enough people out there who agree with this philisophy to form a strong customer base. As is true in any free market system if they are not providing a service that the market deems worthy of their hard earned dollar they (and any other organization) will either have to change their philisophy (or product) or risk losing market share. And if you as the consumer don't feel the product you are paying for is worthy of your money then you have to chose to spend it elsewhere. Trying to change the product itself is like going into a Chevy dealer, complaining about the new Camaro, and telling them to build you a Mustang with Chevy badges. Someone already makes that product.

 

Dutch, it was the start of the season for the track days when this happened. I had been Intermediate all of the previous year. I signed up online as Beginner to help my friends. If you're inclining that I am lying about my situation or what happened, I will be more than happy to fill you in on the times and events this happened at. I also can provide the names of the people that know this for a fact to be true. But trying to tuck into your statements that I am lying about what happened is horseshit.

I haven't had an axe to grind with NESBA about this nor did I go on a campaign to run them down for it. Hell, I gave it a shot a couple more times, but after the third time, I was done. The final time, I was turning high 1:40's on Road Atlanta on a 92 CBR F2. The reason given to me about not moving me up that day? "I didn't quite like the line you had out of turn 7." That was it. Nothing about what was wrong, how to correct it, nothing. Just that if I came out the next day, I could probably be bumped up.

I tried talking directly to NESBA and was shuffled around and blown off. But I guess that's because I was "lying" about it.

 

To be honest I wasn't even thinking about your post when I made mine above. I didn't even read it until this reply by you. And for the life of me how the fuck did you get me calling you a liar out of my post? If you know me you would know if I thought you were lying I would come out and say it. There would be no mistaking it. But I wasn't there, never ran events in the SE and truth be told don't really care. Sorry you didn't get the bump you wanted.

 

You weren't thinking about my post? You did a great job seeming to reference it.

 

Yeah, I guess your post was just coincidentally similar. Right.

 

Truthfully, Dutch, I'm out of trackdays, in all likelihood. I've got more things to worry about. But why can't you address what happened to me? Wasn't a matter of just wanting to bump up, it was the group that I had been in and the way that they just kept trying to push a second track day that bothered me. That's what pissed me off.

 

I'm sorry, but this is a couple of the most ignorant comments in this thread. To pass judgement on an organization that you've admittedly have never ridden with, based on the feedback of other customers after one event that you didn't even attend yourself is pretty shallow chief.

 

To be fair, NESBA did and does tun a very organized track day. I rode for years with them with no problem other than the issue I listed above. I rode with STT for years also without issue. Last times I rode was more with private track days and with Bargy's Track Days. Each has they good and bad points. No one organization is perfect. There are too many people involved.

 

Gawd, I remember those awful FUSA events too, and Speedy yelling at idiots until his face was purple and I thought he'd have a stroke. Yeah, I miss FUSA. Not.