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Lets talk bitcoins

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by Cannoli, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. Cannoli

    Cannoli Typical Uccio

    any "miners" here?
  2. james walker

    james walker beat down, broken & busted

    i tried to do research online to understand it better but then i got caught up in the Beiber scandal and quickly lost interest.
  3. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    Bitcoins are possibly the most retarded thing ever invented.

    They are, essentially, the result of the kind of nerds that sit around and circle-jerk to system specs and compare benchmark results as if they were penis size, getting together and saying "Hey, let's build a system where the more powerful a computer you have, the more money you make!"

    As a network theory and a computer-science concept, it's fascinating. As a currency, it's useless for an incredible number of reasons: The total number possible is capped, the rate at which new currency is generated is completely time-dependent (it doesn't matter if you get all the supercomputers in the world working on mining; there are people in charge of the system that adjust it every 2wk to make it easier or harder to generate coins, based on the rate), and most of all: it's a fiat currency that doesn't have any organization of strength backing it. There are shitloads of other fiat currencies out there (USD included) but all of the relevant ones have a very significant government willing to back them up (potentially with physical materials, or physical force).

    As an investment, it's basically betting. To compare it to the stock or securities market would be wrong, since those commodities actually represent something inherently valuable. To compare it to a casino would also be wrong, however, because here there's no House needing its cut. Investing in bitcoins is really probably more like "investing" in baseball cards, a car collection, or watches - what you're really doing is buying something, betting that other people will also want it. Personally, I think people are gonna catch on that it's stupid and then not want them anymore.

    I heard some news show mention how bitcoin was "untraceable" and I just about laughed out loud. Bitcoin only works because it is completely traceable. The entire network depends on being able to track every single transaction that each coin has ever, in its entire lifetime, been a part of. If even one transaction is lost in its history, the coin can be spent twice. Bitcoin depends on traceability.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2014
  4. Lawn Dart

    Lawn Dart Difficult. With a big D.

    I did at one time. Its no longer worth the effort unless you already have the equipment.

    There's a finite number of unique bitcoin strings, and the shorter ones have all been discovered. As time goes on, its going to take longer and longer to "mine" them. We sort of missed the window.
  5. DucatiBomber

    DucatiBomber DJ Double A

    This could be an interesting topic. Just had a couple crash courses on this and the TOR. I agree with most of what Tophry said. Seems governments do not want to recognize BitCoin as having any legitimate value (for obvious and not so obvious reasons I suppose) but... Then when Silk Road got shut down they seized something like 26,000 BitCoins and I'm pretty sure some federal judges have "recognized" it as legal tender(might be a better term).. Can't see this not hitting the dungeon. Either way will be interesting discussion.

    Ride safe,
  6. Cannoli

    Cannoli Typical Uccio

    It seems several on-line retailers are accepting bitcoins as currency. Overstock is the biggest to date but Google is considering it now as well.
  7. alexm

    alexm Well-Known Member

    Tophyr - it sounds like you dislike the mining (reward system) and the lack of government 'backing', but you do like the cs concept behind it. I completely agree with you on these fronts, but I can't discount the billions of people that are starting to get access to computing resources (and bitcoin wallets) yet have little access to the viable fiat currencies you're thinking of. I think they're the ones that would benefit the most from this type of currency, and any black market. Definitely good for black markets...
  8. brand-o

    brand-o Well-Known Member

    Seems like a house of cards to me. My impression is that the majority of bitcoin owners are speculating and speculators will eventually take their profits. When enough of the big players do, the rest will exit in a panic or lose their ass. It will all come crashing down since there is no inherent reason to keep them when government backed currencies are much more stable.
  9. assjuice cyrus

    assjuice cyrus Well-Known Member

    Wtf is a bitcoin?

    for the stupid people here....
  10. Lawn Dart

    Lawn Dart Difficult. With a big D.

    organizations with power (Google, Ebay, Overstock.com), governments (Germany has recognized it as "private money" and is looking at taxing it). As long as someone with some sort of influence recognizes it, it will be valuable.

    That said, I think its totally a house of cards. I think Bitcoin is the modern day tulip bulb. I can't wait to see it bust.

    I do think there will be a valid digital currency before too long though.
  11. alexm

    alexm Well-Known Member

    Couldn't you say the same thing about gift cards? (ala Circuit City and other big flops)
  12. alexm

    alexm Well-Known Member

    Agreed, and I'm kind of looking forward to it as an alternative to USD (I hate sending $ to family that's out of the US only to have a fat % skimmed by each party involved in the transfer process).
  13. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    Hah! That's really cool, it is exactly the tulip bulb. Never knew about that.

    Governments recognizing it is certainly a step toward it being "real" money. I have a hunch that's more about taxing it however - to a government, bitcoin looks like bartering, which deprives them of tax revenue.. The more significant step is what triggers the government to see that happening: significant organizations, like you mentioned, accepting it as payment.

    In all actuality, every single new fiat currency ever has always faced exactly the fiat-currency-related problems I'm describing with Bitcoin; that's nothing new. It's just like a celebrity - enough people start thinking it's legit, then it will be legit.

    I have more of a problem with the generation limits and the total # cap. However, those could potentially be analogous to the management of the USD by the Federal Reserve. That's beyond the limits of my understanding of modern economics, however.
  14. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    Gift cards are tied to a specific USD amount. If there was a card saying "The holder of this card is entitled to one Sharp 70" Class AQUOS® 4K Ultra HD LED TV" and it sold for $2,000 - you'd snap them all up and then resell them for $4k apiece, knowing that the particular TV in question sells for $5k right now.

    Six months down the road, it wouldn't be worth quite so much, however...
  15. TurboBlew

    TurboBlew Registers Abusers

    From what Ive read... the finite amount plus the units stored on hard drives that were disposed of is whats making it valuable. Think a local guy traded 10,000 bit coins for a couple of pizzas. (~$30) a few years ago. Imagine how that tastes? Think they are worth about $800/ each now.
  16. notbostrom

    notbostrom DaveK broke the interwebs

    so what is the actual legit website? there is bitcoin . org , .com .net .biz etc etc

    and how is this not a recipe for tax evasion?
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2014
  17. tunawest

    tunawest Well-Known Member

    I missed the bitcoin boom, but I just bought 10k dogecoins
  18. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler


    and, apparently, Germany thinks it is a recipe for tax evasion

    much wow, so investment, good coin
  19. GixxerBlade

    GixxerBlade Oh geez

    Bitcoin transactions are traceable like tophyr said. What makes it special to some is that Bitcoin allows users to stay anonymous during transactions if they choose to, it's unknown who's behind the purchase.
  20. notbostrom

    notbostrom DaveK broke the interwebs

    so now every nigerian scammer will want to start using bitcoin instead of paypal?

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