Leaders coming flag??

Watching some racing over the past few weeks and noticed how many organizations flag riders/racers that the leaders are coming. Just wondering if WERA has ever tried that or not? Should WERA do that? I can see the good side and bad side of it. Just wondering what people think. I've been on both ends of the stick, the lapper and the lappee. I know personally I would like to know they are coming, but again I can find some problems that it may cause.

Chris 476 ex.

 

Blue flags would be nice, but I believe might cause trouble by distracting the rider being lapped in several ways: A lapped rider is being lapped possibly because of inexperience and might alter his/her course after seeing the flag and cause a crash. It is easier to get around someone when they are trying to do their thing and not worried about getting out of your way at a particular spot on the track.

Also, when catching a group of riders being lapped, it might cause the group as a whole to slow,or to stop racing each other momentarily and create a bottleneck.

Also, i think that the cornerworkers are stretched too thin at certain tracks and would be tough for them to do their jobs.

I would love it if I knew that it would work but think that on the Club level that it would be very hard to do properly. The experience level varies quite a bit. To solve this problem, stop combining Novice and Expert races! That way the rider ability would be more evenly matched. Too bad there is not the time or turnout to do so everywhere.

 

I agree w/ seperating the Nv. and Ex. classes, that would be a great plus, but sometimes they have to be combined. I think that using a blue flag is a great idea, if it is stressed that the lapped rider not move suddenly, and create even more problems for the leaders coming through. I think if displayed 2 corners before w/ radio contact from control, the lapped rider can move over or at least be aware that faster riders are coming and to hold your line. I say 2 corners before so that the rider can choose themselves to move over and slow or to direct the riders coming w/ a signal from either their hand or foot. In the first corner it could be a stationary flag displayed to the rider (faster guys coming be aware) and then waved in the second (your about to be lapped-watch yourself!) My opionion is if this was established at the club level, then as the racers go up to the pro level the AMA can't say that racers are not aware of this flag and that it would take to much effort.
IMHO

 

In car racing it technically means check your mirrors, then you can see a faster car coming and get out of the way based on his moves, on a bike with no mirrors there is no way to tell which way the faster rider is looking to pass you so any movement becomes dangerous.

This leaves us with the best way to have people get passed being for them to stay on their line and the faster rider can/will go around them at their discretion.

Combining Expert and Novice races will always happen unless you really like leaving for home at 8pm on SUnday night - and even if you do I don't, and I can guarantee the cornerworkers who have been at the track since 7am don't.

Our main reason's for not using the blue flag are twofold - first, it can create a bad situation when the slow riders tries to help out and moves into the one passing him. Second, we do not have cornerworkers well enough versed in every class and about every rider to make the call correctly.

 

I'm wif Sean.

To guarantee proper use of a blue flag, you'd have to have consistency in corner worker involvement, and at some tracks, there is difficulty getting enough corner workers.

Besides, there is no special consideration that comes with being a leader. Sure it's polite to not unduly obstruct the front runners, but in the end, it is the passer's job/responsibility to get around/through traffic safely. And the blue flag will do nothing for an erratic rider, except maybe create a situation that's worse.

I'd be against a blue flag.

 

I can see where your coming from Sean, that's why I would say display 2 corners ahead and the rider could point on which side he wants the leaders to pass. But, I agree w/ erratic riders or guys that really don't have a clue, it could create even more of a mess. Also, bigger/faster classes would require more control interaction w/ the corners...overall, though I think blue flags are an excellent idea, and would really help but do understand why we don't use them.

Maybe we could work the problems out in the endurance races,since there is more time and would get corner workers more experience and control also interacting w/ the corners and telling them when to display a blue flag...just a thought

 

The point about training the corner workers during endurance races is a good one, but I think the obvious choice is to train the riders during the endurance races. If newer or slower racers had the chance to spend a couple of hours on their bike in race mode they may not need to worry about being lapped the next time. Tray Batey and Glenn Szarek could be battling tooth and nail for the lead of a national endurance race and closing on a stock EX-500 with a 70mph speed difference but 99% of the time they will find their way around without missing a beat or overturning the apple cart. Not only do the top riders know how to make the passes safely but the slower riders, by virtue of it happening many times per race, will learn to be passed without getting involved. You can train the corner workers as much you want, please do, but corner workers change week in and week out, the riders don't.

 

Without mirrors, I can't see _any_ advantage to displaying a blue flag. Flash that in front of someone and what's he supposed to do? Alter his line? Bad. For him as well as whoever is overtaking. Same goes for 2 or more being overtaken.
But I've always been curious....just what is the reason for "no mirrors" on a race bike? Is it just to keep from having something sticking out that could cause problems or is there some other reason.........

 

All pretty good points. I see it both ways. I was just curious because I watched a few car races where they were doing that, but of course they have mirrors. I did notice though that the AMA waved blue flags at riders at the Supercross race here a few weeks ago. I was think more of using it at the start/finish line. Say for instance at Talladega your coming down the straight and your a slower rider and the leaders are coming, oh say out of the last corner on to straight. Just give the blue to the rider at the line and that way he knows there coming. The trick is to educate riders not to freak out but to just understand that hey the fast guys are coming I need to run my line, but good lines. It is my or the riders responsibility though to pass cleanly if your a faster rider or hold your line but be aware if your the lappee. I look at something like Savannah, and say we are running a endurance race, and Tray Batey is coming out of turn 9 on his TL at full tilt buggy, and I'm passing by the start/finish line. I wouldn't mind a blue flag letting me know that in this case Tray is coming and the probably by the time we get to turn 1 he will have caught me. In this case I would say to myself "Oh faster riders coming, I'll just hold my line and allow them to go on by and aid them in clearing me if possible". Not "OH SHIT, what do I do here they come. Just a thought. Obvious goods and bads to the issue. Hey Charlie if we put mirrors on the bikes we could look at our teeth and make sure we don't have any food in them after lunch while going down the straight at Savannah this weekend.

 

Here are my two pennies.

Being a very new rider, I'm thinking about all kinds of other things. I don't want to know when or if I'm going to get lapped until the offending party zings past. Do you really want a lapper to look over his shoulder to see who is coming? In the end, that is what's going to happen. See the blue flag and then take a quick look to check your six.

Leave the blue flags to the car racers.

 

Blue flags?? Bad, bad idea. The last thing I want when lapping someone is for them to "help" me by changing their line. Sean's point about corner workers is a good one also.

 

I agree with Number 400 and all the others opposed to the blue flag. Whats up with even mentioning using mirrors. Next thing were going to have everyone hooking up their horns to alert other riders to yeild.

 

Horns! Now that was funny. That's the first time I've laughed out loud while reading the bbs.

 

That was funny, since at a recent track day at Roebling a friend of mine still had his horn connected and messed with me on the checkered flag lap. It's all good humor if the timing is right and you know the person you're messing with.

Of course I would never condone this type of behavior in a race situation.

 

I'm not sure that I would like the idea of the flag either. My only opposition is in the case of passing or getting passed and that one might be more worried about getting passed than concentrating on his line. Then things could get hairy. Of course then, and only bthen would the horn come in useful with a quick following middle finger from the expert you were blocking

 

That middle finger always manges to get its point across. I've noticed more of that hand gesture lately among the profesional riders too. Can we put that into the rulebook instead of the blue flag?

 

You just hao be careful when you use it. If directed at the officials it quickly becomes the $50 finger - as in it's a $50 fine every time you use it It can also be the $50 finger if used towards another competitor so I personally wouldn't chance it.

 

Heck, for $50 it's a lot cheaper than therapy and more therapeutic.

 

True but repeat offenders may find the cost of their fingers going up drastically. We do tend to take sportsmanship seriously. Occasional lapses are understood and you may get you wrist slapped but repeated offenses will get you in hot water. Racing is dangerous enough without people getting overly emotional... Like I said though - the occasional lapse can happen to anyone, you may get fined, you may get talked to but when the day is over we all kick back together and have a beer

 

I'll gladly forego the $50 finger and use the money to buy that sweet wonderful frothy golden nectar!

Oh, now I'm too excited. We wait and wait all winter for race season to start, then rush through the day in anticipation of that first cold sip.

Now I'm really glad I got the room in Savannah with the mini-fridge. Party at my hotel after the races!