I PROTEST!!!How can someone who is plastered all over Motorcycle Performance magazine for WINNING races not just podiums still be racing in the novice class? I just came back from Talledega where a couple of guys that were winning races last year cleaned up in the novice class...points or no points, these guys are sandbagging so they can take a championship that they missed last year. what gives? Is that fair to the rest of us?Why are they not running in the expert field anyway? Seems that Brian Hayes had no troble going expert...(6th & 8th) Give someone else a chance, our grids are ALREADY crowded enough!...3 WAVE STARTS! - C'mon!!!
Which novice classes? I planned on racing C prod and B prod, but tech sent me home Saturday morning (My frame protectors and solid footpegs weren't enough protection for my cases). Did you get any lap times on the expert with a yellow plate?
Ummmm, can't help you much without specifics. If you don't want to publicy name names just email me and I'll look into it. Sean
hey tim you are right about the sandbagers I was at the track, and was timing the c superbike class expert with the yellow plates, and they were running 103's and low104's tim I timed you to you were doing 106 and 107 I will also be running in this class and you right they sould have went expert.
Hello Sean, I feel that my complaint is a legitimate one and one that should be addressed. In all fairness, Ed Cobb and James Selby should not be allowed to run in the novice class because of their standings in the 1999 season and the GNF. The WERA rulebook clearly states in Chapter One, rule #3 how a rider is advanced to expert status. Ed Cobb was 5th in points in 600 production, 4th in points in 750 production . 1st place or podium finishes in nearly all the races he attended in the 1999 season and 4th in B production at the GNF in front of the series champion! Ed has clearly accomplished all the requirements of rule #3. James Selby was 4th in points in 750 production for the season, 3rd 750 production, 3rd C production, 4th 600 Superbike and 5th in 600production at the GNF in front of the series champion! James has also accomplished all of the requirements of rule #3. Thank you for looking into this matter as it has been published in the point standings and results from 1999. These guys should be moved to expert status immediately and points adjusted accordingly in the novice classes they ran last weekend at Talledega. Same for the cash awards they stole in the solo 20s! Thanks again, Timothy
I'm sure that Ed and James are both nice guys, I haven't meet them personally and this isn't a personal attack, but they really should be running expert classes. There could be others out there that I overlooked...but these guys stood out to me!
Here's one for you guys. I know of a couple guys that finished quite well last year and petitioned to stay a novice, it was granted. Now my buddy who has only has 3 weekends of racing including this past one. He finished 2nd in one race splitting these two guys and walked the novice field in another race. So what is the morale of this story, yes there will be guys that don't want to move, but they can be beat.
I was considering entering the solo 20s. Not now. Why reward sandbaggers so they can put part of my entry fee in their pockets as a novice. My money will be better spent on the track days on the Friday before the race. Here is an easy way to eliminate sandbagging. Make it to where any novice that earned contingency or purse money is not eligible for any contingency or purse money in following years as a novice. If you earned any contingency money or got paid for a solo 20 as a novice, you are obviously fast enough to bump to expert. This benefits true novices. Also, WERA would probably benefit because slower novices would now be more competitive and be more likely to enter more events. Thus more $$$ in entry fees. Now think about how this will effect the companies that pay contingency money. As things stand now, even though I use products that pay contingency money I won't list them as sponsors or advertise there products because I have no hope of finishing high enough anyway. I won't advertise for free. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Novice contingency will go away if sponsors only see there stickers on bikes in the top five. If this rule isn't instated, you are likely to see fast novices stay novice and manufacturers will eventually stop novice contingency. I suggest those of you who have no chance of winning money in solo 20 not enter and use those fees toward other sprint classes. You are only making it beneficial for for fast novices to stay novice. Also, stop listing contingency companies as sponsors and putting their stickers on your bike. The novice contingency money is no good to true novices if it rewards fast guys for staying novice an extra year.
I will check on both of these guys and see what's up. As far as WERA is concerned there is no hard and fast rule for advancing to Expert - the rulebook lays out a general guideline but also lists that you can appeal an upgrade. It takes more than winning races or going fast to be an Expert racer... As for the winning money thing - what about the guys that run at a race where there are only 5 people starting in the class and 2 crash out? Take these same three guys and put them in a much larger field and they finish towards the back - should the be automatically bumped up? Personally I'd say no. Anyway, we are looking into it and keep in mind that anyone, and I do mean anyone, who has petitioned to stay Novice is told that if their finishes warrant it they can be bumped up to expert at any time.
I understand where you guys are coming from, but my first thought when reading this section was similar to what Tracee said. Those fast guys can be beat and you should be paying more attention to your riding instead of someone else's. Personally I like to ride with faster guys because it makes me a faster/better racer. It gives me the drive to get better and beat them. Use your frustration in a positive way and get up there and beat those guys! I wouldn't want someone else telling me what class to race in when I know my own limits and goals. Don't worry about the money, other races or anything but your lap times, results and your racing effort. With a little hard work and dedication the results will come. And then I'll be whining that YOU should be moved up to Expert!
Sorry I stirred up a can of worms. I thought the object of the numerous bike categories and the ex/nov classification was to get parity on the track. My suggestion was meant only to further that idea.
Don't worry fastiger, you stirred up conversation, which is what this BBS is all about. Like I said, I know how you feel and I feel that way sometimes too. Unfortunately we can't all be happy at the same time, and we will always find something to disagree with. Just keep plugging away on the track and you'll get faster. Don't take anything that's said here personally, as we're all friends and racers and you know how friends and racers tend to get all emotional and shoot their mouths off from time to time. I'm guilty as charged and I'm also shutting up now. Good luck this year!
Maybe I'll stay a novice until I can finally win a championship and move on...or maybe stay and run only the solos and take all the money!!
Since Rusnak_322 and I have differing opinions, I would like him to explain a few things. Why do classes with 3 wave novice grids have so few experts? Why do so many people race for a year and then quit? After five seasons, would you have stayed novice if you knew you couldn't win money? Since you asked, I'll answer your what and why? The reason is to get seasoned veteran racer like yourself (5 seasons as you put it)out of the novice ranks. After five seasons, I hope you go expert this year. I saw the results and you podiumed last year. You aren't a novice in any sense of the word. You might be a slow expert, but you aren't a novice. You would at least be as competitive in the expert class as I am in novice. And to answer your other question, no I don't think you should be eligible for novice contingency this year. The only reason you have to stay novice is to poach contingency money or trophies. Or maybe you don't like finishing outside of the top twenty any more than the rest of us first year riders. The reason guys in the top half of the novice grid should move up after a year is because it's dangerous. Novice includes brand new totally inexperienced racers. ex. Talladega: the novice lap times can range anywhere from 1:04 to 1:30+. The best expert is running 1:01. Do you think the likely hood of a rider panicking is higher when the nov 1:04 laps the nov 1:30+ (twice) or an expert passing you a fifth yr novice? That big of a difference of lap times with that many riders is asking for trouble. You had five years. Now go expert!!!! Don't take it personally. wera122 said I could express my opinion on here so I did. I was going to keep this to myself. I figured since I already put my foot in my mouth, I might as well try to fit my entire leg in.
Eliminating contingencies for Novices in order to put an end to "sandbagging" is wishful thinking. You need only to look at the classes where little or no contingency is paid (i.e. LW Twins, Clubman, Formula2, etc) to see this. "Fame and Glory" (even in club racing) is a funny thing - some folks place more value on an easy podium finish than they do in the fun that comes from being in a good scrap for 20th place. And I don't think this is something that can be changed by paying/not paying money or contingencies. The reason why your novice grids are so full in "C" or "B" (and so devoid of experts) is 'cause the streets are full of guys on 600's who think they can be the next Doohan and, after a year of being taught otherwise, decide that podiums can be had a lot easier in some other endeavor...... Just my $.02 Charlie McCullough (slow expert #90)
It took me 3 years to make expert. When I started in 97 I had visions of being the next (insert favorite racer here) and moving to expert my next year to get some manufacuter money. I did OK in my mock school race, finished 2nd to a 900RR on my ZX6R. Come Saturday and first practice I am like where did everybody go. Needles to say I was getting my ass kicked. Second practice I am the second one out and procede to tuck the front in the first corner. After 2 years running my ZX6R I was beat. I had broken both thumbs, seen my bike 20 feet up in the air and been on my ass enough times. I really wanted to race but I wasn't going to make a career of it. At the end of 98 I bought a FZR400. Prepped it to make the last race of the season. I enter the LW solo and hope for the best. I take the novice lead by T3 and the overall lead on the second lap. I went on to lead 18 of the 20 laps overall. The next day I finish 3rd in both classes entered. In 99 I raced the 400 again. I won the SE NV F2 Championship and finished 23 points back in D-SBK. That was the best season I had of racing. Yeah, I wasn't on the new" ZXYZFGXR" something but I had fun and learned more in that one season than the previous two. Be realistic about what you can accomplish. All the whining in the world won't make anybody faster. Take a serious look at your program and improve the things you can. Maximize every minute of track time you can.
I like your two cents. And maybe you're right. Contingencies aren't the way to go about it. Did my extreme disparity in lap times example make sense though. What about a percentage rule? Novices within 10% of the winning expert's lap times in the same class get pushed up if they have been a novice for a full year? My reasoning for pushing these guys up isn't so I can win a trophy or win contingency. It would be nice to see scraps in the late model expert classes fighting to earn points for the GNF. That would be fantastic racing. As far as easy podiums are concerned, I'm a long long way from that (even if the sandbaggers left). This is my first so hopefully those 20th place dicing scraps will be very fulfilling.
I am one of the (sandbaggers) if that name is desereved merely beacause I finished 5th in points in the SE in F2 last season. I petitioned to stay novice one more year not to (sandbag) but to gain more experiance, my best finish last season was a 4th in a down pour in Savannah and that is because I was one of the few who entered who did not fall on my head. I only finished this high in points due to small fields and lots of finishes. If I find myself running at the front with any consistancy this season I will gladly petition to go expert but not because I'm worried about being called a sandbagger but I feel that I deserve it.
