Endurance Newbie Questions

I figure its best to ask the experts so here goes. A bunch of us sprint guys are considering entering a three hour event at our local track. We have a sprint prepped F3 with considerable spares. I would like any advise that you can think of. None of us has ever raced an endurance event before. How may riders would you recommend? What is the average seat time per session? Should we refuel or have a second tank with disconnects? Slicks with a tire change or DOTs for the race? Any tricks of the trade? Thanks to all that can help with some advise.

 

Where is the race?

Is the bike a superbike or superstock?

Do the valves have light scratch marks from cleaning?

 

ROFLMFAO!!!!

 

Well I'm still a newbie, but here's my 2 cents worth from all the thing I've learned in my first two endurance races (both were 4-hours).

1. For a three hour race you could use just two riders doing 45 minute stints (two stints per rider). This may leave you a little tired but you'll maximize your track time. Forty-five minutes will normally use a little over half of your stock fuel tank capacity and according to information gleaned from Sam at VIR (and later confirmed on the track) 45 minutes is about the normal physical limit as well.

2. WERA rules prohibit fuel tank changes as a method of refueling.

3. For a 3-hour endurance start on a fresh (as in never turned a lap) set of tires. Whether slicks or DOTs, they should have no problem going the distance. For your first race you really want to stay away from having to make a tire change. Although having an extra set of wheels with a set of rains mounted is nice.

Again, just my 2 cents worth.

I'll take this opportunity to apologize to "Sam Flemming" for mis-spelling his name on the check I wrote. Please email me if you have problems Sam before sending anyone with the AOD Ministry of Justice.

 

Cayuga, Ontario this fall
F3 with severely scratched valves and head
Basiclly stock with some head work,pipe, suspension etc.

 

This is actuall being promoted by our local race organization. Seeing that they usually do not do endurance stuff they may not have the "no spare tank rule". If not I take it that is the quickest way to go? I am more interested in doing well for the sponsors than extending the rider seat time, sooooo will it be better to have two running maybe a little slower for 45min sessions or do more rider swaps, say 20-30min and run a quicker pace? More input on tires would be appreciated. I have trouble getting two sprint races out of a set let alone three hours or is this due to the lack of heat cycles? Thanks again guys for the advise. This is exactly what I was hopeing for

 

More riders equals less track time and the more pit stops the worse off you are. Forty-five minute stints means a 3-stop race. Thiry minutes means 5-stops and twenty minutes means 8-stops. Manually refueling the bike (i.e. no dump can) and changing riders took us about a minute in the pits. Multiply that by the number of pits stops plus lost time on in and out laps and it adds up real quick. I wrote a spreadsheet to track lap-times, time left in the race, fuel consumption, time on fuel, and remaining fuel time to help with race management. Haven't got to put it to good use yet though.

What kind of tires/compound are you using?? If you use an intermediate compound front and rear you should have no problem going the distance on one set. We ran Metzelers at VIR but may switch to Michelins for our next race. Track surface is a big factor too. If you need to change tires mid-race then it won't hurt to practice your wheel changes before you get to the track. Using saftey clips (instead of wire) on the front pinch bolts and calipers is a big help. Later on if you want to continue racing endurance you can look at fabricating your own quick change setups. That's the point we're at now.

[This message has been edited by rfknight (edited 06-21-2001).]

[This message has been edited by rfknight (edited 06-21-2001).]

 

A lot depends on the track.

The old Talladega track is the only one I have ever seen where you couldn't run three hours on Michelin DOTs. Other tire performance is unknown.

Run your bike on the track until the tank is one lap away from being dry, then refuel it. Never pit if you don't absolutely have to. Pitting loses many races.

Refuel the F3 tank. Don't switch. We have an extra Acerbis Dump can we will sell you for $75 plus shipping.

We can run up to 90 minute stints on fuel and the riders. People who are not used to it tend to fade between twenty and forty-five minutes.

Run as fast as you can without spinning/sliding the tires.

 

What Sam said. Even though you didn't give the Acerbis a strong endorsement I may be interested in buying it soon. All depends on how long it takes us to fabricate our own dump can.

 

For a newbie at endurance the shorter stint COULD make sense. If you each rider runs half tank fuel up every other pit stop. Factors that could change this and make it make more sense to run longer but slower lap is the configuration of pit lane and if a pit stop will cost you more time than a slow rider is.

Get a pit board make it differnet than anyone elses and use it during practice so that riders know what to look for and where to look for it.

White board works okay but get black markers they show up best.

 

This is kinda what I was thinking. As none of us are use to running that long flat out I am worried that we may end up tossing it and crash damage repairs would likely lose any time gained by fewer stops. Unless some endurance teams show up all the competition will likely be sprint guys in the same boat. One other question, do the organizers generally seperate pros and amateurs (expert/novice) and are you generally permitted to run a mixed team? I ask this as I am a pro and the two other guys are amateurs.Thanks again for the help. I am going to print all these and take them to our races next weekend where we are planning to sit down and sort this out a little better.
Cheers

 

Just keep your head down and go. I didn't get really fatigued until about the forty minute mark. As for not crashing, that's mostly mental. Just stay focused. If you need to, just back off a little and take a break for about a lap then get right back in it.

WERA endurance teams are only seperated by bike class not rider class. A team of all novices competes directly against a team of all experts.

[This message has been edited by rfknight (edited 06-21-2001).]

 

Richard, for a fee I will provide a blueprint of the NOB's dump can that I sketched at DIS while crewing for Stokes.

 

May the Death Squad of the AMA Shadow Council darken your door Mr. Polcin.

 

I will arrive in Douglasville with money in hand. I'll make the drop of at the location of your choosing. I'll be out there anyway to pick up my new Hyabusa ..errr GSXR front wheel.

Remember Sam, Industrial Espionage is the highest form of flattery.



[This message has been edited by rfknight (edited 06-21-2001).]

 

As I'm a veteran of one endurance campaign, let me share what I have learned so far.
First, seat time should depend a great deal on the current weather conditions. We went 40 minute rotations at VIR but we could all have easily gone over an hour because it was a very cool day. I was never fatigued and was disappointed when the pit board came out.
As for tires, be prudent and remember that you have to make them last for 4 hours. We started to get slides late in the second hour but were able to control them to the checkers. We used DOT's (Bridgestone) so we could handle wet and dry because we had no spare wheels or budget for two sets of tires.
My biggest suggestion is to choreograph every movement in the pit stop and practice it off track a couple of times. Who takes the key out of the ignition and opens the tank? Who watches the gas level? Who holds the bike? Which side to you get on and off? We never had a pit stop of more than about 40 seconds using K-Mart equipment.
My team was made up of 3 first year novices and as a group we had more fun and learned more lines than we have all season. I enjoyed that endurance race more than all my sprint races this season.

 

Waiting for Tracee. Stinger missles at the ready.

 

Hey now, there's no dispatching the AOD enforcers for infractions against NOtB. It's a separate team, right?

Nice knowing you, Tracee.