Bio weapon - track fuel

If I drop by the track, can I pick some up? I am not riding this weekend at Barber, But I am heading to Jennings Next weekend and could fill out your questions then.

 

There are alot of fuels that makes more power without different tuning. But the good stuff requires a good tune.

 

^ yea, lots of stuff, but not lots of stuff at $6/gallon.

 

sure... will do

 

I tried it this weekend at Barber, while my butt dyno didn't say it made any more power in my 03 R6 (no tuning, runs 93 street) it also didn't cause me any problems. But I did hear some very favorable impressions from individuals who were running and tuned for race gas. Particually because of the price. They also claim that it has a cleaning effect on your engine, slight puffs at start up were evident. Reminded me of running shock treatments of ringfree.

 

Very interested in this stuff. I too would like to try it. Let me know when I can order some!
Also, what about mixing this with normal gas? Is this advised against?

 

What's the point? Why spend the money on race gas if you are just gonna mix it with pump?

 

^ why not? maybe to bring down the octane a bit? it's $6 a gallon, it's not like liquid gold or anything...

 

Mix it to be cheap. Get an octane in the middle of the two for something like $4 a gallon.

 

I've been riding with NESBA for a year now, and I was at Barber this weekend where I ran across the BioWeapon freebie offer. Although I didn't partake in the offer, I have some thoughts regarding this product that I posted on the NESBA forums.

I'm crossposting what I wrote here because I noticed this thread when doing research. I'm hoping that in doing so BWFuel has a better chance of seeing what I wrote, to respond to my questions. Sorry for the length and lack of introduction of myself on the WERA board.

Here's the NESBA thread, my questions are on page 2.

http://tracktalk.nesba.com/showthread.php?t=10206

---begin crosspost---

Ok I'm going to be the skeptic.

Biodiesel must be mixed with gasoline for it to run in a gasoline engine. BWFuel is candid about this, stating "Bioweapon is refined partly from poultry biproducts". Most homebrew biofuel producers usually try between 5% and 15% biodiesel to pump gas. It's still quite experimental... the point being, you can't run straight bio fuel in a gasoline engine like you can in diesel engines. The Biodiesel simply is an add-on, much like Ethanol.

Here's why I'm playing the skeptic. The proces for making biodiesel is essentially free - there's a LOT of people doing it at home nowadays. You can take biodiesel and add it to normal pump gas, and you arrive at a cleaner burning, cooler running mixture. Sounds great.

But I'm thinking economics here. It doesn't really cost you any more than pump gas and time to make a biodiesel gas additive.

In the end, it's actually cheaper for you to make and run bio-gas than it is to run pump gas, because you're mixing 15% or so of a "free" product which costs nothing to produce in to normal gasoline. This means if pump gas costs you $2.60 a gallon, once you mix the biodiesel in, you're only paying $2.21 for the end product because 15% of the end result didn't cost you anything other than some time to wash and filter, and some trips to the local grocer to harvest used chicken fat from their rotisserie...

So you take $2.60 pump gas, mix in 15% biodiesel that's brewed in your basement, and you have a product that costs you $2.21 a gallon. It *is* a great product but the laws prohibit you to sell it to other people to use on-road, because you're not licensed. So you turn around and sell it for $6.00 a gallon to offroad guys, pocketing $3.79 a gallon.

It's smart. Not only does the stuff run cooler, but you effectively boost the octane a bit so it runs a lot like race fuel. And pocket quite a chunk of change in the meantime. It's possible to crank out as much as 500 gallons of biodiesel a week, working alone.

While some may be interested in trying some out, they should be asking some questions about your base bio additive mix, basically to determine and ensure it's within spec, rather than risk an engine on an unknown factor.

You've got to think, a bad 15% mix of biodiesel that's out of spec with pump gas can utterly destroy a spark ignition engine, and some of the built race engines on the track cost a LOT of money. The final octane rating will vary widely with the quality of the additive, the concentration of the additive, and the techniques used to filter and wash the biodiesel - right down to temperatures the mixture is kept at in key points.

Think about what would happen to a highly tuned engine if the octane were reduced below 87.. cylinder detonation, etc..

So here goes:

What tests have you sent your biodiesel additive in for?

Do you have the lab reports available for inspection?

What is the ester and methanol content (% mass)?

What standards do you meet or exceed? EN 14214, ASTM D-6751, etc?

What's the specific density of the bio fuel additive you produce?

What is the ratio of bio diesel to gasoline?

What is the base gasoline you use in your mix? (Both specific brand and octane please)

What's the flashpoint?

What is your liability insurance limits, coverage (which states), and what is your warranty to consumers if your product damages their engines?

Thank you in advance.
__________________


---- after a response from another member, I added this post ---

Sorry. I'll break it down here in shorter form. The more I think about this, the more upset I'm getting. This post is going to sound rude - but I feel it's justified. If you provide facts, figures, and additional information that convinces me otherwise, I will be happy to jump on the bandwagon and promote your product.

Otherwise I'm calling this out for what it is.

First.. warranty. I've got a lot of buddies with expensive engines (myself included).

1. What is your warranty and insurance if your mix is bad and we blow an engine because of it?

2. What happens if one of my buddies blows an engine running this, gets asspacked by another rider, and one or both of them get killed or maimed? (Nevermind, I already know the answer to that question.)

Economics...

3. What justification do you have for charging $6.00 a gallon? Is it because Sunoco is $8 and you know racers will shell out their cash to save $2 a gallon for a product that you can't sell legally anywhere else TO anyone else?

4. Hypothetical here. I can make biodiesel in my basement with animal/plant oil, lye, and methanol for about 50 cents a gallon. Mixed 3:20 with 87 octane pump gasoline at $2.59 a gallon, this arrives at a component part of $2.201 + .075 = $2.28 a gallon at cost, after chemicals. It costs about $100 for the basic supplies to make biodiesel using the methanol process (most of which people already have or can fabricate), so I'm not even going to count production costs.

This leads to the question of WHY you are charging $6.00 a gallon for something we can already do ourselves? I could easily scale up a small operation, make 500 gallons or more of biodiesel a week if I quit my job and worked at home doing this. If I did a 1:20 mixture I could make 10,000 gallons of "race" fuel, at a profit of $37,200 per week. Even if I did a richer 3:20 mixture I could still crank out over 3,300 gallons of "race" fuel and make over $9,000 a week.

Shit I'll quit my cushy $150k/yr job and sign right the hell up for that. I'll even pay someone to haul the shit across country and drive it to whatever track you're riding at.

Sorry if I'm coming off harsh, but I can see a lot of my buddies getting duped for modern day snake oil.

If you are selling something other, please provide more information about your production process, standards compliance, insurance, mix ratio, lab results, and so on. If you're selling a legit product please also provide a patent number and more information on your manufacturing process.

 

This discussion has been continued at http://tracktalk.nesba.com/showthread.php?t=10206&page=5

 

Information about BioWeapon fuel can be found at www.bwfuel.com

 

You can get Sunoco GT Plus for a little over $6 a gallon.

 

I don't think those people would make it over here on the beeb. They're too light hearted, I kept thinking Durani while reading that thread.

 

You'll fit right in if you keep posting stuff like that here. You won't get chastised for it.

 

I ran a whole tank through at CMP in nov. I am on an 04 750 modded,but no motor work and a map on my pc from their website. It deff made a little diff in power on the upper end of the RPM's. It also smells really good IMO. I may try to run this stuff next season.

 

I was there. Made me want chicken wings. LOL Everybody I heard that uses it said they liked it. I was too late to get some.

 

The debate continues and ther results are in.

My name is Brad O'Dell and I am a primary founder of BWFuel Co. We have been working very hard to respond to the questions and feedback provided by all those who tested our product. Here is a link to the most recent BioWeapon thread in NESBA.

http://tracktalk.nesba.com/showthread.php?t=11448

There are some engine teardown images, a fuel spec sheet, and a link to our updated website. (You must have a NESBA forum login to see these images.)

Many of you may know two of our other primaries, Jeff Pitzer and David "DooDoo" Brown, from WERA, CCS, and NESBA. The three of us will be racing BioWeapon this season in CCS and WERA, along with a handful of other well known riders. We all hope to earn your respect for our product and company by riding with those whom we wish to furnish fuel. We are also looking for partners in distribution as well as racers to fly our colors on the track. BioWeapon will also be offered on the NESBA website in the near future for the track days we will be servicing.
Please feel free to contact me directly at [email protected] or here and on the NESBA forum.
Thank you all once again, and I look forward to seeing you this coming season.

 

http://www.motorcycleaddicts.org/pit-lane/31221-bioweapon-race-fuel-3.html#post227690

 

I clicked through the "buy it now" link on their website and for 15 gallons the charge is actually $125.00. So at least the initial outlay is $8.33 per gallon. Now maybe it is $6 a gallon after you already have the drum and pump, but that is not made real clear, and their website say they give you the drum and pump free?