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AHRMA Dissolution?

Discussion in 'WERA Vintage' started by 83BSA, Oct 30, 2006.

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  1. phantom 309

    phantom 309 Well-Known Member

    No coinidence,just another way for them to rule us members.
  2. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    AHRMA Statements

    From AHRMA's web site:

    "When we filed our claim with our insurance carrier (Reliance), we discovered it was insolvent in the largest insurance bankruptcy of its type in the country. AHRMA was able to secure coverage from the Wisconsin insurance insolvency fund that covered $300,000. It was anticipated this would cover the cost of the case. "

    Now that is interesting. AHRMA learned it only had $300K from its insurance 4 or 5 years ago. Any such anticipation would have ceased to be valid long ago, unless (1) AHRMA failed to manage the TO litigation, or (2) AHRMA was misled as to what the litigation would entail and cost.

    "However, the costs of defending this action have been staggering, and have far exceeded estimates on which we relied."

    Now this is interesting. What is AHRMA saying here? We were misled? What did AHRMA do or fail to do in "managing" the TO litigation? I suspect the story from AHRMA's attorneys will be that they regularly provided updated budgetary estimates and fully kept AHRMA representatives informed. Who at AHRMA was responsible for "managing" the TO litigation? Was it AHRMA's "special litigation consultant", Jeff Smith? Was it the Trustees? The Executive Director? The finger pointing should commence in earnest now that the monies are gone and public statements suggesting malfeasance are beginning.

    "Settlement negotiations were conducted earlier this summer, but were unsuccessful within the resources available to us. "

    Well, that is some of the requested information. There are many c omponents to such a statement. Whether and to what extent that is an accurate statement remains to be seen.

    "Although we are very confident of victory in the case, we do not have sufficient funds remaining to pursue the case in court."

    What does this mean? AHRMA will no longer defend the TO litigation? Having spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in that effort, that does not make sense. What are AHRMA's plans in this regard? Again, information requested earlier this week.

    "AHRMA further intends to take this opportunity to revamp and modernize services, as we clear the burden of the lawsuit, and emerge as a stronger association."

    What does this mean? "Clear the burden of the lawsuit"? How do they intend to do that? Was AHRMA's "business plan" to spend all its resources, declare bankruptcy, obtain a discharge of the TO litigation and then continue operations as though nothing ever happened? If so, who recommended, and who approved that scheme? I'm no bankruptcy attorney as stated above, but the idea of fraudulent conveyances and voidable transfers come to mind. I suspect that some inquiry or discovery on that topic may be appropriate. Perhaps the appointed trustee in BR would look at that?

    "In order to preserve our remaining resources, maintain the integrity of the association, and further the interests of our members, we have filed a petition under Chapter 11"

    "Further the interests of our members"? Was any member here consulted on a plan or strategy that involved filing bankruptcy? That seems to be double talk. Without expalnation, AHRMA's statements leave more questions pending than they answer.
  3. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    Bankruptcy is not my area of expertise, but it seems clear that AHRMA is going bankrupt due to the Iannucci suit. Indeed, the strategy may be to deny Iannucci any recovery and effectively kill his suit.

    I believe that Iannucci, as an unsecured creditor, and may recover little, if anything from this suit, even if he is successful. (I am assuming that the claims against AHMRA would involve debts/judgments that are dischargable under a bankruptcy.)

  4. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

  5. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    Question: What was the AHMRA rationale is banning Team Obsolete, its bike and riders from the races?
  6. Yamaha Fan

    Yamaha Fan Well-Known Member

    From what has been reported it seems like a purely punative action as a result of the previous entanglement over the "Bears" name... (in spite of the fact that AHRMA prevailed)

    The chapter 11 filing will certainly contain some hints as to the status of the legal fee’s. I would be curious to know (the point raised by David) if in the belief that AHRMA would ultimately prevail, those directing the legal efforts at AHRMA together with the firm defending AHRMA “ran up the bill” anticipating that TO would ultimately have to pay the bill… This would be an ill-advised and inappropriate conspiracy, fraught with risk should the outcome prove other wise.

    If the filing shows there are still major outstanding legal fees from the TO case this may be a good thing for the AHRMA members as they have not yet been paid… I believe the firm will have to justify any payment to the bankruptcy court. If on the other hand there is not a significant outstanding balance and the “special litigation consultant” and this law firm have all been paid then it is truly sad. Hopefully a new slate of trustees and the membership can see that heads roll if this is found to be the case..…

    For Rob I/TO to be victorious they need not win, only prevail to the point that AHRMA cannot recover their legal costs or as it appears to be playing out, Rob I/TO needed only to outlast AHRMA...

    I fail to understand that keeping Rob I/ TO out of AHRMA events could EVER justify this much damage to the organization.... Sad.....
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2006
  7. weber#465

    weber#465 mud fight

    Rob wins.

    David (83bsa) what would you have done from early on to insure AHRMA didn't get into this shape? :(

    Your a lawyer can you give them some help with the Rob I. T/O case?:up:

    If you win a case but then someone ties you ass in a knot and drags it on and on. :tut:

    How would you have made it stop if the case needed more and more?
  8. Yamaha Fan

    Yamaha Fan Well-Known Member

    The current case seems to have resulted from the banning of Rob I / TO not as a dragging on of the original Bears case. The Rob I / TO case is beyond help at this point... It should NEVER have been carried this far..

    It would appear that it could have been prevented by never having banned Rob I / TO and may have been able to be stopped if cooler heads with the best long term interest in the AHRMA membership had interviened...

    I don't think there is anyway to see those that brought AHRMA to this point as serving as "Trustees" .....
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2006
  9. Andy 338

    Andy 338 Member

    Weber, so what did Rob win? I doubt it is admiration from all the Ahrma members, whose vintage racing future he has helped to put into jepordy. Although, I am sure he will continue to have his supporters, that see him only as victim in all of this. To bad all his efforts in promoting vintage racing has ended in his pissing on all the Ahrma members not just the few he feels wronged him.
  10. phantom 309

    phantom 309 Well-Known Member

    well said Bob, couldn't agree more.
  11. sparksfarmer

    sparksfarmer Member

    Thanks for the admission,

    I have to give it up to you, When I read your postings, I sort of thought you didn't really know what you were talking about. I especially like the way you forgot to say you were an attorney when you posted that certified letter you were sending to AHRMA. Probably just an oversight...:tut:

    Dave, I've only posted facts you already made evident on your own. I hope you make it to a construction site here in Michigan some day, I'd love to meet you.

    As an attorney who has not seen any of the evidence, and do not know what has transpired between Robert I and AHRMA, and without the benefit of the information the AMA's attorneys have in their little folders, what do you think we should do next? Your an AMA member too so lets see, perhaps you can bang out one of those awesome letters and send it to the AMA.
    Gee, How does this Jeff Smith guy have so much power that he can convince the AMA to side with AHRMA? Gee Dave, if you were our attorney and you knew we had it in our bylaws that stated your members can be asked not to return for cause, How would you have defended the practice? Doesn't the AMA have a similar line in their rules? How about WERA? You should get on the by-laws committee to fix what ever wording they have wrong. If you love the clubs, how about helping out? You can always apply for the ED job or run the Vintage Views and help do Matt's job.

    This reminds me of the attorney on the Simpsons... I can't think of his name, but he is the ambulance chaser. I'm sure you know the type. Anyway, The kind that says, ..."without knowing the facts of the matter, I still can weigh in with an informed decision, because this reminds me of a story a guy told me at lunch at the construction site last week. I met him when I got sent out to take some measurements and paint some lines so they know where the road goes... Yes, I can speak authoritatively on this, even though I don't know why the AMA sided with AHRMA...."

    Anyway Dave, Look forward to seeing all your insightful advice that you will be sending to the AMA, since their lawsuit continues.... Please let us all know what you think they should do, I'm sure their attorney could use the wisdom of your advice.. You know, especially since you are a civil engineer and a patent holder. Hell Why don't you fly out to New York and wave your magic twanger... (Hey, why don't you just call up Rob tomorrow on the phone and take care of this yourself. You are an AMA member and an AHRMA member, so you should have no problem implementing your magic and fixing this ASAP.) Looking forward to you getting fixed, let us know how it all goes...

    Thanks for the entertainment Dave, Your a hoot!:clap: :clap: :clap:


    While your listing your credentials, please let us know when you became licensed to practice law in Ohio and in New York?:)
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2006
  12. Robin172

    Robin172 Well-Known Member

    What a Richard:(
  13. sparksfarmer

    sparksfarmer Member

    #198 Yesterday, 01:17 AM
    Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002
    Location: Atlanta GA
    Posts: 357

    "AHRMA's only affirmative claim is for attorney's fees.

    One does things to maximize its claim.

    In order to maximize its claim, AHRMA increases its attorneys fees.

    AHRMA's attorneys benefit from AHRMA spending more money on litigation.

    Hmmmm . . . . "

    Hey BSA,

    The quote feature didn't want to work so I had to cut & paste this. Since you seem to be inferring that AHRMA was ripped off by the legal firm, and your an attorney, HOW ABOUT YOU DO SOME PRO-BONO WORK AND HELP THE MEMBERS SUE THE LAW FIRM? I'm sure an attorney like you could handle that case for us in his spare time. How about it. You must be good enough to find those ruthless things that attorneys do to pad the bill, since you can make that claim without even seeing the bill. Gosh, Dave, you should apply for the job as AHRMA ATTORNEY! Hell, I got it. Everyone on the list could chip in and pay for a Greyhound bus ticket for you to go to New York and you could take over AHRMA's Case! How About it everyone, I nominate Dave to do some pro-bono work for the good of the membership. He has had all this good advice on the list here, he would be a shoe in for Perry Mason. Maybe that is what we need. A true motorcycle enthusiast as an attorney who understands the track.

    Please Dave, take the case. Save AHRMA!

  14. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    Congrats Sparksfarmer!! You have, in a mere 14 posts, reached the fabled status of BBS Troll. Even worse, you are an anonymous BBS Troll.

    You have nothing to offer here but distraction from the real issues and naive insults.

    And why don't you man up and identify yourself and your role in all of this. Obviously, you must have some kind of agenda given that ALL of your posts on the WERA BBS are in the one single thread.

    Who are you? (I noticed that you refused to answer this question on the TO Forum also.)

    Troll. Go away.
  15. charles

    charles The Transporter

    Sparksfarmer, put down the burrito and back away from the screen...slowly...

    Boys I think you havn't seen the end of this yet, you can be sure the plaintiffs in ED NY will be having some words with the bankruptcy judge and the U.S. Trustee (who get his fee from AHRMA)...while sparksfarmer mentioned Ohioh, maybe the State Attorney General's Office there will want to exercise its statutory athority to determine if there were any nonprofit
    'irregularities.'...it ain't over until the Fat Lady sings, and Rob and the TO boys aren't known to go down easy...a Chapter 11 requires a 'reorganization plan' within either 100 or 120 days to indicate how past due debts are to be paid (indeed-how?) but, hey, does that include a prospective judgement???

    Here come de Judge, here come de Judge...

    Bleak House, Chapter 2.
  16. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    Yeah, TO has to be notified and probably has the right to attend meetings in the Bankruptcy matter I believe. (Edit: the Bankruptcy documents may be available to the general public online or in the courthouse.)

    And AHRMA also gets the benefit of an automatic stay of TO's suit for a while. Indeed, TO may have to make a motion for relief from the stay that might not be granted for quite a while.

    Does anyone know if the AHMRA has a contract with the AMA or is partly owned by the AMA? If there is a contract, when does it expire?
  17. charles

    charles The Transporter

    TO has the absolute right to attend any meetings in the Chapter 11, as a 'party of interest,' as might a members' representative or members themselves (maybe, depends on de Judge!)...hmmm...the AMA as a party,
    meybe the cavalry riding to the rescue of the trustees, fer sure ol' Rob will be
    taking a peek at that, yea?

    Bleak House, Intro to Chapter 3, "We all get cozy in the judges chambers."
  18. Yamaha Fan

    Yamaha Fan Well-Known Member

    :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

    Because law, ethics and common sense are so different in Ohio and New York.... :rolleyes:

    Please share your credentials with us......

    (Sparksfarmer you have obviously and unfortunately never met David...)

    While reading your ramblings I have failed to discover a single relevant point... A quick remembrance of the AMA / Rodger Edmonds conflict pretty much defines the AMA when it comes to conflicts...

    In the interest of decorum I decided not to post what I believe is a picture I found of you... a quick google search for "your problem is obvious" will surely turn it up for you...
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2006
  19. weber#465

    weber#465 mud fight


    Okay lets all turn this into a pissing contest. There are some who only want to complain, ask questions that can't be answered (at that time) and then answer their own ? with an obfuscated point of view.

    It looks like this thread is about to go supernova for all to see.

    "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."
    sorry Ben Fronklin again

    I have been giving the benefit of doubt to all who posted here. I was hoping that they/he had the best of intentions for AHRMA and our future as racers with AHRMA. I was "foolish" to think that now.

    Andy338 your right there will be people who will suport him.
    To win $ was not the goal.
    AHRMA's plane (club) was hijacked from the ground by the ATC (lawyers) and they could not land (litigation) and was made to jump through hoops of the legal prosess till it crashed. ROB Wins. He already has all the money he will ever need and more.

    I'm all for putting Rob in charge and I don't say that as a joke. He is a very sharp buisnessman. The black ice he put in a curve one night for AHRMA to hit only caused bent forks. He wanted the bike not the rider. The ice will melt he fixes it and will emerge as a hero for saving the bike. We all race and nobody cares about the rider who was riding as safe as anyone could. That rider could have been any of us.

    We all have the benefit of hind sight and with that we can look smart with should haves and could haves (looking down on a maze thats been ran).

    when it gets into the courts nobody wins just some lose more than others.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2006
  20. phantom 309

    phantom 309 Well-Known Member

    (I'm all for putting Rob in charge and I don't say that as a joke. He is a very sharp buisnessman.) In charge of ahrma ,what are you smoken.The series would be like the one he tried to run with no one showing up ,but the people he paid to come.I agree we need a big change, but there are not to many people left that rob has not already walked over.I wouldn't mind seeing him at the track again but not running the show.:down:
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