Would like to race this year, unsure of class

Hi,
I am planning on taking a licencing class and racing a few times this coming summer. I have a few questions about the class that I should prepare my bike for.

I am building a Triton as my race bike, with a '59 Norton wideline Featherbed frame and '71 Triumph t-120 650cc engine with 4speed.
Drum front brake.

In reading the rule book, this would classify as a formula bike? Vintage 4?

Does anyone know which class I would look to find myself in?

Thanks for any advice.

John

 

Hi John,

I think if you put that motor in a stock chassis, it might be 500GP.....I'm not sure where the featherbed chassis would land you.

Good luck sir.

 

As Charlie said: stock Triumph frame + stock Triumph swingarm + 30 mm carbs = 500 GP. Or you can destroke it to 600 cc, add disk brakes and run it in V2. Or, run it as is or add disk brakes and punch it out to 750 cc and run it in V3. The drum brakes will hinder you in V2 & V3,and the lack of displacement will hurt you running against built Yamahas and Triumphs in V3. I know a BSA or two you could punish . . . .

Cheers,

Dave

 

John,

Which WERA rounds were you planning on attending? I'd like to see your bike.

Cheers,

Tex

 

Tex, I am not sure of what is on the schedule this year, but anything near the North East would be game for me, unless the Triton does not qualify for any class!

The Norton frame is the foundation of the project, I'll have to dig deeper into the rules. I am just learning that these things might not be as strict as they seem to be. I was originally planning on racing my BSA, and was told by ARHMA that it can't race in the production class with alloy rims. I then spoke to a guy who races ten times a year with AHRMA who said that half the bikes he rode against had illegal alloy rims, and no one cared!

 

I believe Mongo has said it before, but "if you show up with a bike that's safe and ready to race, he'll find a class for it." That was regarding a can-am spyder :P

You'll be able to race against someone, it's just a matter of where the bike will be competitive.

 

They seem to be pickey about the production classes.....but I'm glad reality rules sometimes.

The Triumph, stock, would be very competitive in 500GP.....if the usual 500GP crowd of bumped-up Honda 350's is the whole grid...you should be up front.

I have no idea where the frame puts you.

 

Alloy rims? Really? Whoever told you that was wrong, dead wrong. The featherbed is an improvement over the stock lump. That is one reason the cafe crowd went the Triton route. Is it as much of an improvement as a Trackmaster, Redline, etc? Who really knows? It doesn't really matter. The rules are written the way they are for a reason. I think a well tuned and ridden Triumph 650, stock frame and swinging arm, with 30 mm carbs and drum brakes would smoke the 500GP class, but I'm willing to be a part of that experiment on my BSA single. What BSA did you want to run? If it is an A65, I'd help you argue the case that a stock framed with stock swinging arm 650 BSA with 30 mm carbs and drum brakes on alloy rims, would be appropriate for 500GP, and as with the Trumpet, I think it has the potential to smoke the class. The BSA 650 is a lump - probably 25 lbs heavier than a comparable 650 Triumph engine. I know - I have several that I weight lift with.

Just bring it and run. We' can always sort what, if anything needs to be adjusted later. If it/you smoke the class, we'll figure out pretty quickly if it is the bike or the rider. And, if it's the rider, then good on ya', and we'll either have to get with it, or pay homage to your abilities. Either way, there will be more bikes on track,which means more fun for all. And besides, last time I looked, there ain't no world championship at issue here . . . .

Cheers,

Dave

 

500 gp, v3 and/or v4

Reading the class rules for 500 gp it appears you don't have to be stock, just oem frame, swingarm, 30mm carbs and 4 speed. I think you could have cams, pistons, beltdrive etc.

Summit point is probably your best venue if you're northeast...times a wastin! Get to work!

 

Question> i was contacted by a racer wanting to know if i have ever tried to put a KZ 750 engine into a GPZ 550 frame.

My understanding is that in the V1 through V5 must use the stock frame. No hybrid. Must be OEM frame. I didn't want to give him bad info. I told him to stop working on it.

What say the experts?

 

: . . . you don't have to be stock, just oem frame, swingarm . . . ."

Heh, heh, I love it. Positions like that are why people in my profession will always have work.

Cheers,

Dave

 

BTW - Wherever you are tonight, walk outside and look up. That is one BRIGHT moon. Looking thru my telescope, I swear I can faintly see the bands on Jupiter. The woods in Talking Rock look like they're illuminated with flourescent lighting . . . or maybe that is just the glow from the Martini's . . . .

Cheers,

Dave

 

Thanks. That's what I thought.

 

I believe when "Stock" or "OEM" is mentioned in the Vintage rules (CH 11), that kicks you into the "Superstock" section (CH 9), which limits mods....basically CH 9 is applied to anything stock, then exceptions allowed or dis-allowed are listed in CH 11.

I havent read CH 9 today....I know it limits the work allowed on the chassis, but I'm not sure what it does to cams, etc....I know overbore is limited.

An example would be the great frame bracing debacle for the CB350. That is where the comment "frame per superbike rules" came from in CH11, 350GP, index rule, basically allowing frame bracing because its not superstock rules (superbike)....I guess if framework were allowed on the 500GP triumph, it would say the same thing?

That situation also drove the addition to superstock rules of "The items above constitute the entire realm of deviation from showroom stock for Superstock classes. If it does not mention you CAN do it, you CAN NOT."

My take anyway.....its all been heard before....just my opinion.

I've always considered the triumph 650 to be the class of the 500GP field....where is Tom (midnightrun) at?...he does very well on his triumph.....or John Rickard. Thats a fast triumph....or Chuck the Viking...he has run 500's and 650's.

I'm looking forward to seeing Dave's B50, and Roys tankshifter out there!

 

It sounds like allflatblack is wanting to use the Featherbed frame. If I had that frame I would consider going with a later model 750/5 speed Triumph motor and disc front end for V3. Your bump up would be V4 but you could do a lot of trick work with that set up, IMO.

Of course if I had a featherbed frame and a motor like someone else probably has, say a GTR........Dave?....it would be tempting to.........nah it ain't gonna happen.

 

". . . OEM frame means the same OEM frame as the OEM motor came in - not any frame from any OEM anywhere in history . . . ."

:up:

I only know of 3 GTR's still around, and I, unfortunately, do not have one of them. I believe one is in NC, one is here in GA, and the third is in MO (St. Louis?), I think. That would be a sweet project, and ride, to be sure.

Cheers,

Dave

 

Thanks for all of the input guys,

As it stands, I guess that If I show up, I'll find something to race in.

The limited configuration(Drum front, four speed) is a result of my desire to build a bike which will qualify for AHRMA events as well, a group with very strict rules about certain things. I am not in a position to take trips to LA from NJ to race so I thought that I could just join a couple of groups and take what comes when there is a race in my area (OH to NJ, VA, NH)

I have been thinking of this as my first step bike. If all goes well, I might build something better. But what better way to get good at racing than on something like the Triton?

 

Here is my perspective on this, and since I am the well known(self appointed) voice of reason (Shut up, Charles), you had better all listen to me.

The Triton was such a well known combination back in the day that I believe it is well within the spirit of the rules and should be allowed in 500GP, not as an exception or hybrid, but as a regular, but not factory, model. I am also not certain that the frame is what made the Triton so common. I think they were successful back in the day because with the featherbed frame, the racers also upgraded the forks and shocks and footpeg location and seat and tank and brakes. All of those things contribute to a better race bike and are already legal for 500GP. I'll bet if you took a stock Tri frame and upgraded all the same components as going into a featherbed conversion there would be very little if any performance advantage for either combination, especially with the much better quality of components available now vs. 30 years ago.

I raced a Triton in the mid 80's and I liked it a lot. I should get another one.