More riders?

Haha. That makes perfect sense.

I've only ever done one race weekend, (plan to do more once recovered from this most recent surgery), and it was with a different org than WERA.

There is a fee associated with the racer school right? I guess I was thinking much more informal, and no fee.

 

$125 if I recall correctly. As a matter of fact, my son and I haven't raced in a while so we'll be taking it again at Tally. This will be my 3rd time in 25 years It's actually a great school and always fun.

 

In my experience, much more than the fear of crashing, I have found when digging long enough that it's more about the fear of finding out how fast they really aren't. Until they have gridded up, they can keep telling themselves that they are the undiscovered Kevin Schwantz and you can't prove otherwise.

Of those who do make the leap, many also quit when that becomes real. How do you convince someone with a big ego to spend all that money to get their ass kicked once or twice a month? There can only be one winner at a time and fuck, it looks like it's always the same 3 guys. Some people can handle it just fine, others find a new hobby. I'm convinced that's why novice turnover is so high. Not that money isn't a huge factor, it's a very real obstacle. But young guys who really want to do it will do the most stupid things to keep going.

For the majority of people, track days sadly (for racing) make a lot more sense.

 

Only in the preregistration line. She's very kind and busy.

 

So damaged egos are the biggest hindrance to bigger grids. Trophies for everyone through 20th place.

 

Still need to get them to the track.

 

Hookers and blow.

 

Roughly ten years ago there was a money race as opposed to a points race on Saturdays correct? I preferred that at the time as opposed to the current double header schedule because it allowed for less overnight travel while chasing regional championships.

Also, is there still an entry fee discount card provided for winning a regional? That was a great way to generate repeat business.

 

The solo 20s with a payout were my favorite races. Won like $300 once and thought i had made it big!

 

I got to say one of the things I always say when this comes up. If you are an old fart like me and used to race or want to race DO IT!!

The thought of racing keeps me from eating as much junk food and makes me stay active. Staying active seems to keep the reactions working. Loose a few pounds, ride a dirt bike to get some kind of feel back and come to the track. You could try vintage with bikes that are not that old (V8 is 12 years old, V7 is pre 1996). Or for newer stuff that's easy to find, there is always clubman where you won't be with high horsepower multies.

At WERA Vintage Days this year at Mid Ohio I had a blast back and forth with a guy for much of the race. Afterwards I followed him to his pit cause he was also on a vintage bike. We had both placed in a class that had few in it. He asked me how old I was and I told him 64. He told me he hopes he could still ride like that when he's 64. He meant it as a compliment. Yea I'm old. Yea I'm bragging but that was maybe the best compliment I ever got.

I am also surprised how occasioning a guy shows up that used to race a lot. At Barber last year I met a guy that was about my age that was still pretty fast. He had the AMA history to prove it too. I wish more of these types could get over their "fast days from the past" and just come out to play. With some practice and loosing a few pounds you would probably be plenty fast to have a blast!

 

As a 'young' person who is going to start racing next year, I think this is a much broader problem than any organizer can alleviate.

Go to your typical weekend TD and watch all the groups ride a couple sessions. Afterwards, ask yourself how many of those people you would be comfortable sharing the track with in a race or how many of them would be comfortable sharing the track with you. If we're going to the same days it probably won't be a lot.

TD attendance is incredible right now but I feel like the skill level has dropped at the same time. At NJMP I have heard it said 'intermediate is the new novice' and 'advanced is the new intermediate.' The sport has been saturated from the bottom up which is both great and terrible depending on what you are looking for.

IMO there are a ton of people who obviously aren't of the racing mindset so you shouldn't even try to hook these people for the time being. I'm talking about the people who run novice group for 3 year straight or are running 30s off race pace or are more interested in riding with friends or more concerned with not crashing/getting injured than they are in improving their track riding. For these people 'good enough' is good enough that's what the TD provides. I would put like 80% of the TD crowd in this category. Not worth chasing unless you have are looking at full grids every weekend, I think.

Then you're left with the remaining subset of decently fast riders who might have the tenth-and-hundredth-hunting mindset necessary to be a racer. Most at my track are already racing (lots of older in-and-out types as outlined here), and for those who aren't you would get a whole smattering of answers as to why they aren't. Licensing (or more the stigma that it will be hard and boring), cost (or the stigma, again), fear of crashing, fear of mediocrity, they're all likely causes.

Personally I think a large subset of this small group just don't think they're fast enough yet (how I felt this year). Like, at NJMP we have an absolute hoard of 600/675/750/765s running 1:34-1:39s in the advanced group every TD. People with the right mindset but they've hit a plateau. It's good TD pace but would be on the slower end of a CCS grid and no one wants to be embarrassed. Because of this congestion there was a discussion earlier this year about starting something like a 1:1 program to get some of these people faster so that they could run in expert TD group. I think an added bonus would be that it would put them right around mid-am pace which suddenly makes the thought of racing much more enticing. I did some school time which helped me push past the plateau but it's tough to tell people to spend big money on schools and IMO the current TD coaching hasn't proven sufficient to push people past this point.

Obviously the problem with this solution is that the onus is on the TD organizer and really out of the hands of the race organizer.

 

Since there are significant numbers of track day riders, is there some way to get them to sign up for a wera race?

If a first time racer showed up at a race riding a new R3, likely they will feel like a road block unless they are an exception. They need to know there is a place where their ego doesn't get bruised.

How about a beginners class that you can stay in. Sort of like the old motocross C class. You can keep riding the class as long as you don't win or come within X seconds of a certain pace. There is only one beginner class with no displacement limits except nothing faster than a 650 twin or certain size 4 cyl. Call it the C class so people aren't put off by being called a beginner. Some folks may ride this a couple times a year and never progress but hey at least they are racing. Others would ride it once or twice and go to regular classes.

As you can see, I'm trying to figure out a way to get track day people to try racing.

 

Dave, you and I are about the same age so we've been around the block. I believe track days are the reason there's less (or not more) individuals racing. When I got into this in the mid 90's, there was no such thing as a track day. If you wanted to be on track, you raced. I learned about WERA from an article in Old Bike Journal. In that same issue was a step by step guide on how to build an RD400 race bike. So a friend and I went to a race at IRP and mingled in the pits. That winter I bought an old RD and turned it into a race bike. The following spring I took that bike to IRP, not knowing jack shit about what I was getting into. All I knew was that I wanted to race.

I've participated in two tracks days, both at Putnam to shake down a bike I built over the winter. I chatted with the guys around me about racing and there was zero interest out of them. As a matter of fact they wondered who this fool was circulating the track on a 25 year old 2 stroke motorcycle. I compare track day guys to the kid in your neighborhood that has a fart can on his Civic and screams up and down the street all night. They're posers that only want to take the minimum risk yet they talk the loudest. No amount of marketing is going to change their mind.

In my book, word of mouth is key. We even have a local site on Facebook called Louisville Vintage Race Team. It was created to get more people on the race track. I'm working on two more guys that may very well tag along and race next year, but damn it's like herding cats. You have to have the desire inside, or no amount of convincing is going to work.

 

This is the center of this discussion. For me, I found Speedvision in college and said: "I'm going to race cars when I get a job. I don't think I can race motorcycles, because going into T1 with that many other bikes seems like it would be too much. So, I'll race cars." I did one trackday and by the end of my first session, I knew I'd be a motorcycle racer. It felt completely natural to me. I think this goes towards the "racers race" philosophy. I didn't need any marketing campaign. I was going to race.

Contrast that with a local sportbike group that I hung out with when I got out of college. These guys rode a lot, and did the occasional trackday, but I think they still needed some "push". I think seeing someone that they knew going out to the races convinced them "if he can do it, so can I." A couple of these guys did the whole 2-4 years of racing thing which this sport relies on. So, my suggestion would be to focus on how to build awareness for those that are near to this sport that it is attainable, even for them.

 

Same topic, same replies. Love it

 

So what are track orgs providing that WERA isn't?

 

Yes, I really liked those better too. I'm sure for WERA the two day format is better because it generates a lot more revenue.

 

To me it's pretty simple...a lack of commitment. You show up, ride around the track a bit then leave. The only person you compete against is yourself, so what is there to prove.

 

Physical Ability!

 

Here is another dumb idea. We could occasionally go to a track day forum (there are plenty) and talk up WERA racing, how fun it is, how easy it is to try and that it is safer. Heck, they already have a bike and this is real racing! We would not do this on sites specific to a certain track day organization but there are plenty of forums and Facebook pages about track days in general.