2022 Mini classes

I don't think there is a true need for a class for the 110 Ohvale to be competitive/winning and it seems to work fine in the 50 class. Any reason to change that?
I think this class is just fine. Plus is great to get the younger rippers out there.

I'm also truly not sure there is enough demand to justify splitting the Ohvale 190 out of the 80 class since the bikes already legal for it are actually faster even if no one is currently running one. I'm looking it just performance indexing it in there. I think you already know my thoughts about the 190. MotoA won't even let them run in their class unless it is in a 12" wheel format. Might want to parrot that IMO. Highsides ruin confidence in young racers.

Other thoughts/ideas? Lets limit the bitching please or I'll never get this done.

Would like to see a 'super mini" class. 190's/212's and the Honda 150r. Would be great for the adult racers and separate away from the younger rippers.

Good luck, I know no one will ever agree but my suggestions are in line how most mini orgs run.

 

I'm lost on the highside thing, we're not running kart tracks so I haven't seen even a slight issue with any wheel size on any bikes.
Speaking as a parent, the 190 is a lot for a kid racer on 10" wheels especially on a short chassis such as an Ohvale. MotoAmerica has moved the 190's to 12" wheel format.

I'm torn on the bigger class. We have options once riders get to that point and we're as much into minis as we will probably ever be as it's intended as an introduction to running on longer/larger tracks not to replace the mini orgs. The Honda 150 is already legal for the 80 class unless I'm missing something. Who is making a 212cc mini?
The 190 engines can be turned into a 212 with a very economical kit. And it's fast! Ohvale now charges quite the premium for chassis with turnkey 212 engines (I think you will start seeing these soon). The CRF-150r is more competitive to a 190 then the air cooled horizontal engines of the 140/150/155/160 variety. I think another trend you will start seeing is a move from the 10" GP chassis to the 12" GP chassis.

I also don't want to base all the rules totally on the Ohvale any more than I did the Metrakit or any of the other popular at one time minis. I'd rather keep them a bit open and everything can come play.
My gut tells me that Ohvale won't be a passing fad and those chassis are gaining wildly in popularity. As of now the air cooled 160 is the premier class (opinion) and is what the WOLRD MINI GP uses. Just for the record I don't have Ohvale chassis so I'm not carrying water for them. I just seen how the mini's have evolved the past five years. This might put you in line with MotoA / other mini orgs and you could see kids cross over.

And again, not an argument, merely looking for more information.

 

Are you interested in splitting out liquid and air cooled?
Mini 50
Air cooled 4 stroke to 150cc (KLX big bores, Bucci's Kayo's)
Liquid cooled 4 stroke to 125cc (I think the Beta 125 is the only bike that would fit this)
2 stroke to 65cc
Mini 80
Air cooled 4 stroke to 190cc (Ohvale 190/160- or make it 212 probably won't matter much)
Liquid cooled 4 stroke to 150cc (CRF150R)
2 stroke to 105cc

The new Corse bikes would probably crush any bikes that are currently racing (GP frame, 17's 85cc 2 smoke and 150r 4 stroke) but not enough to competitive in Clubman.

We aren't running bike track mini's this year so I got no horse in the race.

 

In agreement here. The 190s can throw some quick high-sides in a hard, corner exit or wet track. Somersaults and flying "W"s. Hip and back protectors advised.

I can agree with this. I owned each (at the same time) and used to switch between racing them in the same class. On tighter tracks, both can keep up with the 300s and 400s. Fact. But close racing against a 300/400 on a smaller ohvale can get dicey.

Aside, most everyone wants a 12"-wheeled Ohvale now (especially taller riders). Going back to the comment about high-sides, the 12" has a noticeably more stable platform.

True. The 160s are the premier classes. But the the 110s/190s have good grid sizes at the MA mini cup events.

 

The only reason Moto America moved to 12 inch wheels on the Ohvales is because Ohvale moved the 190 to the 12 inch wheels, and if they allowed a mix of 10 and 12 inch wheeled Ohvales on the track, they wouldn't be able to come up with a level playing field for that class. Plus, I'm sure they just want the contestants on the latest machinery. I'm sure part of it is marketing for Ohvale. Which is fine. I get it.

There was a limited production run of 212cc Ohvales in like 2020. Not sure if they're still using that motor or making a limited production. Chances you'll see one at a WERA event is kind of unlikely. Those things are pretty damned pricey. Personally, I'd like to see the 190's with dual disc brakes in front. That's the ONLY thing I like about the Bucci compared to the Ohvale.

I watched Josh Raymond and Nathan Bettencourt rip all over tracks in NJ and NY all last year....NEVER saw an Ohvale 190 high side on 10 inch wheels. I never high sided mine, either (but I only rode practice days.)

Here's my thoughts:

NJMiniGP, SFLMiniGP and DMVMiniGP are the premier and best run MiniGP orgs in the US. They have 3 kids classes that I think matter for this situation. (50cc's just don't matter here). I'm going to take the info from NJMiniGP's site. I'd suggest splitting WERA Mini's into 2 classes. One that includes these bikes as shown below in the WERA Mini Lite class and everything else runs in WERA Mini Heavyweight. The ages shown don't matter....I'm just directly copy and pasting from:

https://www.njminigp.com/mini-gp-racing/race-classes/

Spec110 - Kids Class
Ages 5-17 with little to no track riding experience

Bikes limited to:

• Honda CRF110, Kawasaki KLX110 or KLX110L, Suzuki DRZ110, Yamaha TTR110, Stock SSR110 and Yamaha TTR90 ONLY
• Wheels can be changed to 12” front and rear on above bike models only
• No engine or chassis modifications whatsoever
• OEM engine internals only
• Stock bore and stroke must be maintained
• All OEM gaskets must be utilized
• OEM carburetor must be used
• OEM Air box must be used (No air box modifications allowed)
• OEM Exhaust System must be used and left in stock format. (NO MODIFICATIONS ALLOWED)(Stock exhaust baffles/spark arrestor must be installed)
• OEM ignition system must be used
• Tires, drop-in air filter, jetting, gearing and controls may be changed
• Front forks must remain OEM, spring and fluid may be changed, internal modifications ARE allowed.
• Rear shock must remain OEM, spring and fluid may be changed, internal modifications ARE allowed.
• Only standard octane pump fuels are allowed (no oxygenated, leaded or high octane race fuels permitted)

MiniGP Pro - Kids Class
Ages 5-17 with little to no track riding experience

Bikes limited to:

• NO GP Chassis Allowed expect for the specified models below
• Up to 110cc 4 stroke
• NSF100 in Stock Trim Allowed
• Ohvale 110cc Auto model allowed in stock format/trim only
• TTR125L, DRZ125L, CRF100, CRF125L, SSR125, MSX125 (Grom) & Z125 are allowed (Stock bore and stroke must be maintained)
• No chassis modifications whatsoever that includes wheel size unless specifically called out below.
• Wheels may be changed on TTR125L, DRZ125L, CRF100, CRF125L to 16” but must utilize OEM hub.
• No 2-stroke engines allowed with exception of Honda NSR50 and Metrakit 50 in stock trim

GP110 - Kids Class
Ages 5-17 with little to no track riding experience

Bike limited to:

• GP Chassis Only (NSF, NSR, YSR, Ohvale, etc)
• Up to 110cc Manual or Auto
• Up to 63cc 2 stroke
• Tires, drop-in air filter, jetting, gearing and controls may be changed
• Front Forks must remain OEM; Springs and Fluids can be changed
• Rear shock maybe aftermarket

 

Wow, that is a very big statement. While I like how organized and the sheer volume number of events these orgs have, I think the left of the Mississippi folks just rolled their eyes at you!

1. Kids in Texas have probably one of the most fun orgs we ever ran in TMGP THEN get to go bump bars with Collin Edwards in the dirt.
2.The California kids can show up at a mini track and be on first name basis with MotoA AND World level talent. Some things you just can't put a price on. The amount of indirect coaching and absorption from other kids is quite phenomenal. The flat track scene in Cali is absolutely top notch.
3. We use to have Robert Roach and Dustin (RIP) in Arizona who always gave back to the mini kids. Man, I really miss Dustin. Thanks to those two we focused on training more and racing less which I really think helped our program. Phoenix has a very fun flat track org.
4. Rocky Mountain Mini Moto has HUGE grids and have turned out some great talent. And their flat track programs appear to be very well organized.

At the end of the day I say the proof is in the pudding based on head to head results (mini racing). While the right of the Mississippi has closed the gap, the left side of the nation has been getting the upper hand. Just trying to keep it real with you buddy. Individual training by top level talent seems to beat mass training days.

Oh, count yourself lucky not seeing a little ripper being highsided off a 190. [/QUOTE]

I've not seen these chassis at WERA mini events, and have fallen completely out of favor in California Mini orgs. Seems the trend (at least out there) is to get them on a GP chassis after a CRF-50 has been mastered.

 

I agree that proof is in the pudding @FastByKids

that New Jersey kid that is a British Moto 3 champ and won Daytona last year says it all.

 

I gave my input to you @Mongo.

shit for brains didn’t need to add his two cents. I didn’t say fuck all to any of his input.

So my input stands. Those types of platforms i listed are all pretty evenly matched for the smaller mini class. Everything else in the “bigger” class. It’s minis. It’s mostly for some big track time for the kids. Thanks for allowing time on race day for that. Past that I’m not that deeply invested as long as my kid gets to have a little fun. Which he does. I’m not gonna be a douche ans come to you at the GNF and complain or protest minis.

 

Agreed^^^

The two points you make (about never seeing a highside) are factual based on your own observation. But not true at all. Just had to be in the right time and place. Nathan had his in 2021 (at NJ and, I think, at BWI). You weren't there those days. I'm only naming Nathan since you mentioned him. He's really good and he's also human. We make mistakes. Even as kids... Two other kids, now-11yo and now-15yo, MA minicup racers had ohvale high-sides last year as well. Meh, it happens when you're sending it. My first one, in 2019, I didn't know any better. For the second one, I knew better but sent it anyway. And my "send" is relative in speed to the kids I mentioned. Good news is that none of us were hurt. Just pissed.

That's one point. The second point you glossed over, and yeah, I'm going to point it out: you ride pretty dog-slow to warrant a high-side. By your own self-deprecating statement you throw out here on the beeb: "someone's gotta finish last". So a high-side shouldn't happen, right? Plenty of others in the same boat but not using that statement to support their non-experience of high-siding. We get it.

One of the fantastic traits of the ohvales is that it is super-freaking tough to lose the frontend on them. The word "NEVER" can (almost) definitely be applied here. Seriously. One has to really push while cornering/trailbraking. Else, one has to be in over their head on the ohvale with no business of being on a two-wheeled machine.

Definitely agree with this application of the class organization. Keeps it simple and consistent.

 

If I strap an extra 100 pounds to your little ass, you'll understand Mike. I could probably have anorexia and cancer and still weigh more than you.

That and recovering from what I've endured the last year doesn't making riding one bit easier.

 

If I can save one parent from making a mistake of putting a child on a 190 to early then mission accomplished. Now the market is flooded with 10" 190's as people rush to buy the 12" versions.

Trust me it is no fun questioning your responsibility as your kid goes under the knife.

Thus far in five years of mini racing we have seen: One broken ankle, one broken wrist, three broken collar bones.

I'm putting Zum on a timeout. This is just a message board and personal attacks / name calling equals taking things way to serious / other character issues. Hopefully I'm wrong but not along ago I had to do a serious inventory and adjustment to my life to correct some behaviors. Zum exhibits characteristic of addiction and abuse. If he is in your circle reach out to him and do a health check. Hopefully my worry is misguided.

We just had this removed out of my daughters shoulder last Monday.

 

@Mongo
Does a Honda Monkey run mini 80 or Grom?

 

Sorry Captain 12 Step..but I'm just fine. I'm the happiest guy in a very tranquil place. Flew through my last psych eval for work, and my polygraph.

Fact: You tried to shit on my input to Sean....not the other way around. If you had kept your mouth shut....wouldn't be shit to say. Sean could evaluate the input as he sees fit, and still can, and make his own decisions based on what he likes and dislikes. I shit on NOTHING you provided.
Wasn't written or directed to me, so I let the intended audience have it and evaluate it for it's value or devalue. Had no stake in what you wrote.

YOU make everything a pissing contest. You're not THE authority. Just because your kids were in California and can leg hump some pro's doesn't mean shit.


And as far as Mike goes....he's a back marker as much as I am. No authority on anything. Yeah. I'm a backmarker on my Ohvale 190....I'm over 250 pounds in gear racing 100 pound kids and 140 pound Mike if he's there. So if Mike wants to strap a 100 pound vest on and even the playing field,
plus essentially endure what it feels like to try to ride after blood clots in his lungs, cool. We'll see what happens then. He's also on here giving WERA racers advise....how many WERA races has he done? Well, the next one he does will be his first.

The high sides have nothing to do with the Ohvales being 190's. When I bought my son's first Ohvale (used) the gentleman that sold it to me bought a 110 manual for his son. We were at Circleville, OH with OMRL. That young man high sided his 110 manual that day. I know he's done at at least twice since there was a photo on here
of him tumbling on his noggin I believe at one point. Lots of factors go into a crash. My kid crashed his 110 manual at Morristown, NY this year in a fast right hander. We learned to run higher pressures in front, 24 PSI, because the PMT slicks can tend to roll on the wheel at lesser PSI's....luckily the kid and bike didnt' have a scratch on them.
Ohvale TOUGH! Hasn't happened since I adjusted the pressures for him. Never happened til that day on that turn. He was in P2 in qualifying and hauling ass when it happened. He was also wearing a brand new suit...so it was destined to break in that day due to "New Shit Syndrome".

He's also been in a "SuperMan" on his CRF110 last year....had to add some stiffness to the front fork springs cause he grew 3 inches and gained 20 pounds last season. Problem solved.

Sucks about the collar bone..could have happened in a stick and ball sport too....cost of doing business.

 

Eh, whatever. My points were a tad offending, I presume. Riding season starts in just over 50 days. Time to practice launching my starts from the back of the grid.

 

Can't take the beebs to serious. I've been at this board for almost two decades. That type of person comes and goes. When they say it takes one to know one, well it's true. But I've moved on to better. Hopefully he fixes whatever is empty in his life and become a better person (Chemically/Emotionally/Personally). The mini world is very small and we all keep in contact from coast to coast. It's a fantastic scene and I hope he can be a better contributor to it.

I'd troll him so much more but I seriously think he has some serious issues that I'd rather not be a part of. Or worse be a trigger of.

At the end of the day I'd bend over backwards to kelp his kid succeed.