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V6 HW through V8 HW Points...

Discussion in 'WERA Vintage' started by Mongo, Sep 16, 2016.

  1. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    lanehammond likes this.
  2. VFR#52

    VFR#52 Well-Known Member

    I'm sure we will all be waiting for you to drop by our pits and have a chat with us vintage guys.
    As we all usually part close to each other.
    So you won't have to go far.

    Steven Isenhower #52
  3. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Wow, bad mood or just being yourself? :D

    I talk to people in the paddock all the time as tough as that might be for you to believe. Not as much as I'd like but it's hard to do that and run scoring or take care of things around the track at the same time.
  4. VFR#52

    VFR#52 Well-Known Member

    Just messing with you after the last reply.
    I don't know how to make those cute things you make.

    Steven Isenhower #52
  5. ck.mecha

    ck.mecha Well-Known Member

    749/999 were introduced for 2003 model year, they should be legal now as well.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
  6. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    They are in V8.
  7. nhammond54

    nhammond54 Hammond Brothers Racing

    Don't know if it matter or not. But I would be willing to try the best of 4 like the rest of the vintage classes. If that works for everyone else.
    sPatlovich1 and 27stormin like this.
  8. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    So race two weekends and done until the GNF? Sounds like my Sportsman setup proposal...
  9. nhammond54

    nhammond54 Hammond Brothers Racing

    Just throwing it out there. Whatever you decide at this point. Like i said if you want to so the sportsman thing....that is fine too.
  10. sPatlovich1

    sPatlovich1 Well-Known Member

    I think the 4 race thing for all vintage is the way to go. I think most of the guys who want a national championship will race more than two weekends but will not always race 6 weekends. The gnf will be a much better turnout if you have 6 guys gunning for a championship instead of just two.
  11. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    This isn't just directed at you but I think your post may underline what the problem is a lot of people are having.

    I'm not yelling or upset or trying to be an asshole here either, I'm going to however be a bit blunt in order to hopefully help everyone understand some basic things that seem to be getting confused.

    You are NOT getting points once per weekend on a double header weekend. You are getting points every time you race the class which means to get 6 RACES worth of points you can do so in THREE weekends if they're all double headers.

    For example right now in in the Mid Central region on the tentative 2017 schedule you have 12 RACES listed for V6HW through V8. That is 12 points earning opportunities over 7 events. Double what would be counted at the GNF towards the National Championship.

    I'm seriously considering making VMD essentially a Vintage Cycle Jam - which would then add another two races and points opportunities for ALL Vintage classes to regions it's not currently listed in.

    So to repeat - for the classes being discussed here, it is NOT a six weekend requirement to earn points for the National Championship.
  12. VFR#52

    VFR#52 Well-Known Member

    Mongo the collection and opportunity to collect them is not issue.
    The issue is by only counting 6 best it narrows how many can earn enough points in different regions.
    Case in point is me last yr.
    I was only 1 on grid and I was guaranteed 20 points just by finishing a race.
    If you do not show up at GNF with 120 points aka maximum points and you have at most 3 guys who have done this then you may as well stay home.
    What about everyone else?
    You have to win 6 races throughout the yr.
    While it can be done and has been done.
    You still have riders in regions who show up and get maximum points cause they are only one on grid.
    But you have regions who have guys trading wins and won't have 6 wins throughout the yr.
    So in effect you have to go to a region or race that no one else goes to just so you can collect the points so you can have a chance at GNF.
    So this rule favors a region with 1 person on grid.
    Now everyone will say that the GNF pays double points.
    But given the caliber of riders I'd rather not bank that they will blowup or crash and also the low numbers on grid won't help someone 10 points down going in the GNF race.
    I think we need 6 races to make championship same as always.
    But you throw only counting best of 6 and it limits how you can earn points and where.
    You will have to run from competition to earn points.
    Norman knew he had to beat me to take points and he did.
    That in effect took money from Wera.
    Cause I stopped racing when I didn't get enough points make a run at GNF.
    And it also stops guys from buying V7 bikes and racing cause they will be in our region.
    What you have done is killed us from racing each other cause we have to win only to get enough points to run for National title at GNF.
    A 2nd place is same as last place unless you just want a regional title.

    Steven Isenhower #52
  13. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Steven - please stop. All you're doing is confusing the issue. I wasn't talking to you or even remotely about your problems with the points system. I get it, you want to be able to get to 120 points without needing to win 6 races to do it. You think that that will encourage more people to come out and race, and it may. You think it's fair because other riders have no one to race when they win, and you may have a point there as well. However this is racing not tiddlywinks and while some racers are "lucky" enough to win their region with little or no competition and get 120 points they still have to kick ass at the GNF to win the National Championship. The rider YOU choose to complain about the most keeps winning the GNF to win championships. I have not killed a damned thing. I am still out there putting on races and adding Vintage classes. You are still bitching just as you have always done when the structure isn't optimal for you, where you live, and where you want to race. Those are things I cannot fix. Making things "fair" so everyone has 120 points (or 80 or whatever) going into the GNF isn't something I think I necessarily should fix.

    This is racing. Racing is about skill, and luck, and perseverance and all sorts of things. It's not about someone who goes out for a race and when they can't win they pull in. A championship can absolutely be about one race. Or it can be about an entire season. It can be regional, it can be national. If you choose to put more on one than the other that is your choice, I don't feel there is a difference in the quality of the championship based on the name. They are both important to our riders, neither is simple to do in most classes.

    Anyway, All I was doing is making sure EVERYONE understands that in the current National Championship points structure for WERA Vintage you earn points per race not per weekend. In the classes in this thread that happens twice on double header weekends.

    Ultimately my personal feeling is racers race. If you want to ride around worrying about nothing but a Vintage Championship then so be it, however that is not how most our our customers feel. the overwhelming majority of our customers come race because they love racing. The overwhelming majority don't ever win a race much less a championship. They do this for the love of the racing. My personal feelings are like theirs, I do this for the love of the sport and the people involved. I don't do this to try and make sure you win a National Championship when you can't win individual races because Norman beats you at those events but somehow you think you can beat him and Trautman at the GNF.

    Yes, this is aimed at you and yes this is me being an asshole and yes you'll get all butthurt and go on about how it's my show and I make the rules and all the other passive aggressive stuff you post regularly. But you won't stop repeating yourself even in response to things that have NOTHING to do with what you're bitching about and being nice obviously wasn't working.
  14. VFR#52

    VFR#52 Well-Known Member

    And again you keep saying I don't want to race more!
    Goes to show just how much you read what I'm saying.
    I'm not complaining about JT winning at all. Something you fail to see this.
    I'm telling you point blank you are killing this class with counting 6 best.
    It makes no difference how far I drive.
    What does make a difference is if I am unable to win 6 races or I get more than two 2nd place finishes I should just stay home after that.
    Cause with the riders we have you cannot show up at GNF without 120 points.
    I mean last I checked you lost entry fees by me not coming to the races.
    2nd place is same as last with the points system you have.
    It also stopped new riders from going into vintage.
    Somehow you seem to think I want it so I can win.
    You did that with a Nola region.
    And whoops I won. Now bad luck helped me out.
    All I have ever wanted was the opportunity to be equal on points at GNF.
    That's it.
    If you have a few bad races you have no way to make points up.
    See what's funny is I'm a paying customer and you are loosing money by points system.

    So you can help kill vintage or you can help it grow.
    So be an asshole to me all you like.
    I can take it.
    I honestly think if you would actually sit down and talk I can show you exactly what all comes into play here.
    But you don't want to do that.
    So who looses here then?
    Won't be me. I can always find a place to race or retire again.
    Have a great day.

    Steven Isenhower #52
  15. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I know what comes into play here. Sitting down with you won't change anything. You saying the same things in person you've said here and in person in the past won't change that we think differently about it.
  16. sPatlovich1

    sPatlovich1 Well-Known Member

    I'm in the nc region, and as it sits there are 5 races at grattan and 2 at vmd and 1 at beaver. I don't plan on going to grattan 3 times, but that's just me. So I don't see my self at the gnf for next year. I haven't really had a problem with the points for the past 6 years but it will be tuff this year with nc schedule. A lot of us vintage guys race for fun, only a few run the full season, and I like others struggle to make 6 rounds let alone the gnf. I was just giving some input on adding to the grid for the gnf
    VFR#52 likes this.
  17. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    Can I bump up a BSA to V6 - V8? This is far too entertaining to simply standby and observe.:beer:


  18. VFR#52

    VFR#52 Well-Known Member

    Well then you either don't care about vintage or you just won't listen to someone who actually pays to race view.
    Guess if it comes from me it's an insult to listen to my ideals. Lol.
    Let's ask how we can get more riders on grid?
    Let's ask what incentive racers have to keep racing.
    Now let's look at racers just wanting to race for the fun of it.
    Seriously you think JT shows up at GNF for fun?
    Or Norman? Well sir you where not paying attention to the hacking going on.
    Lol. They want to Win.
    And badly I may add.
    So do I.
    Or we would not do what we are doing.
    But you make the rules and I will show up and use them to my advantage.

    Steven Isenhower #52
  19. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I get that racers show at the GNF to win championships. However as I said, the vast majority of our 2-3000 racers show the rest of the year to race. Based on what I've seen in reality vs here that includes Norman and I know it includes John and Ma.

    As for the rest of your same old stuff, well, same old stuff....
  20. nhammond54

    nhammond54 Hammond Brothers Racing

    I don't really know why I'm replying to this, but here it goes. In the Southeast region we have 2 Doubles, so that would be 4 if you could win. Then you would have to go to 2 more weekends to get your 6 if you could win. So that being said, now you have one guy with max points if he wins all 6. So let's say he stops racing until the GNF. So another guy steps up and bangs out 5 wins because the other guy is out of the picture and that is all the race weekends available to the guy in the Southeast region. Unless he goes out of region to get another win to get max points for the GNF. So really you only have one guy from the Southeast going to the GNF with max points. Now you have another guy in another region with only himself he gets 6 wins with no competition and goes to the GNF with max points. And yes I know there are 1,000 different ways that can turn out from there. But I think the point trying to be made is there is only a couple of people in it at the GNF. And by the way there is only 10 points earning opportunities in your example, not 12. So if you went to a best of 4 race like the other vintage classes, in theory you may end up with more people with max points at the GNF. And then you say well how is that different from the sportsman winner takes all? My opinion on that is when the GNF was by invitation only, you earned your way there to run for the winner takes all championship. Now that it is run one race and your in, you don't earn your way there. And I have heard all the reasons why it is that way now and I am not debating the fact that it may be a necessity for it to be that way now. Do I think it gives validity to the series and the championship that you can run one race and you are in the GNF, NO. So do as you will, that is just my take on it. I can make it work for me any way you want to do it. Best of 6? Best of 4? Sportsman winner take all? Just would like to know so I can start planning.
    27stormin and sPatlovich1 like this.

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