U.S health care system

I like it in the sand, for what its worth. However, I do take your point.

When I said LONG RUN - thats what I meant. Things, as you say, will probably get worse before they get better.

Perhaps I have too much faith in science, but it should prevail.

 

baltobuell???? Nate? Wouldn't think there would be more than one person in baltimore with a buell that races in WERA but it doesn't really sound like nate.....

 

Side note: No, they just die from the condition that goes undiagnosed because they were...waiting for an MRI. You know, little conditions like cancer.

 

Pretty much true. The companies that have the most liquid assets in america are the insurance companies. They can afford much lobbying.

I live in TN and there is a farce that we call TennCare, a socialistic medicine and care system that is plaguing the state. Our politicians and lobbiest people are working over time to try and pass a state income tax. (Currently we don't have one.) We pay some steep sales taxes, but...

Anyway, politicians learn the buzz words in their first 30 days of campaigning. They need to use the words "teacher raise" and "healthcare" to get their agendas complete. We've seen raises in sales and property taxes and the poor teachers haven't really seen a dime... I feel for them, but I can't give anymore.

I'm against the social healthcare system. I look at it like this. IF, and I say if because it is just an example, you were into some legal issues and you needed a lawyer; would you want just anyone to handle your case, like the first guy that answered his phone, or the best lawyer that you can get, even if he is 10-20% more.

I look at the same with a doctor. I want a guy who is paid to know what he is doing, not just be there and get the business and patient.

I'm sort of against a national healthcare, but something has to be done. We are going broke in this country already and the baby boomers aren't really the ones to blame. We'll spend everything in other countries and tell our citizens the coffers are empty. While we must make a positive influence, we can't support the world.

BTW, not all professionals are bad.

This is my opinion...and .02 cents.

Furthermore, if you'd like to rant on something. How about this one. I was in the Gulf with many other folks and some people are sick. (I'm one of them, but its not sick in the head, as far as I know.)

Our government told us that we are fine and don't worry when we got back. Most Gulf war vets can be covered by a small wording phrase called "undiagnosed illness"; only if they presistantly press it with the VA and get support from some good agencies like DAV or VFW usually. Undiagnosed illness means, "we can't pin-point what it is that is wrong with you, but we can't prove it wasn't us that screwed you up". The congress was going to remove that status for gulf people until some cool politicians stood up.

I've met many disabled vets, who don't say a thing, but just go on with their lives. Typically, I'm one of them, but I just cut loose today... They aren't asking for hand outs.

When I meet other gulf vets usually the first question isn't; oh yea, where were you at. Usually it is, "are you healthy?" The short strokes are, when your government can't explain weird pregnancies in women, and all the BS that occurs in many vets, it is proof that a nationalistic healthcare will not work. They can't figure out some illnesses of just a Small Populus.


When I came back from the gulf and was horribly sick; the first thing that the hospital told me was that I should never give blood again. I was shocked.

But nothing is wrong is us, I guess.....?

Nope, not me. I'll take my private healthcare ways where I can fire any doctor that I perceive doesn't know what he is doing and I can move on to the next guy when I'm sick. (Don't laugh I've done it. You are seeing a doctor to get better, not to waste your work time and his time; at least that is how I look at it.) Don't get me wrong, most doctors are smart, but in any field of study, you'll have those that excel and those that just get by.

BTW, what do you call a doctor that graduated with a C average.
Answer is, Doctor.


Sorry for the rant and several degrees from seperation, but a national healthcare system is just a fund raiser. In my opinion...

I'll now return you to your normally scheduled program.

And dude, whomevers thread I attached to. I wasn't directing all this at you.


Scarbs

 

1. A lot older because the average lifespan of an American is getting longer and longer every day. Why? Because of advances in healthcare, that's why.

2. Yep, kids eating junk food is OBVIOUSLY caused by insurance companies. Hmm, nothing about the responsibilities of parents mentioned here ...

3. Folks are dying and suffering from all sorts of cancer because ... yep, the stuff that used to kill us ain't around anymore! Why? Oops ... that's right ... better healthcare! I have two friends that have suffered with breast cancer, and had to experience chemo ... and they are still alive, vibrant, and continuing on with productive lives. Without chemo, they would be ... dead. I'm sure their husbands believe in the wonders of chemotherapy.

 

Oy.

Another side note: the cost of healthcare also has nothing to do with the health insurance companies. Healthcare costs are set by hospitals and drug companies. They decide what to charge. Those charges, by the by, also don't reflect the actual cost of the drug/treatment. They reflect admin costs, malpractice insurance costs and, oh, a what they need to make a profit.

The insurance companies just cough up the dough.

You want to reign in health costs? Get people to take responsibility for themselves. Eat right. Exercise more. Don't go to a doctor who just treats your symptoms. Go to a doctor that diagnoses/treats the cause.

Don't get "preventative" prescriptions. That's an oxymoron, anyways. They're prescription drugs because they have side effects. You're preventing one thing and opening yourself up to half a dozen other things. Stupid, that.

The list goes on and on...

 

Yeah, but that doesn't mean that it's ever going to be less expensive. Which was the point of the post. Right?

Er, did I mention the insurance companies in any way, shape or from in my post? Didn't think so!

Two things responsible for, to be blunt, all the fatass kids. 1.) Parent responsibility, or lack thereof. 2.) The $11 BILLION dollars the food companies are spending this year in child specific advertising for junk food.

Again...this has what to do with healthcare getting cheaper?

As someone who's spent the last 7 years vounteering for organizations like the American Lung Assocation, The Leukemia Society and the Lance Armstrong Foundation I am hyperaware of cancer. I have also lost 1 grandfather and 5 uncles to cancer. About to lose 2 more uncles and an aunt as well. A great many of my dearest friends are survivors. I know all about chemo.

The point is that we still don't have a cure. We can knock it into remission. On top of that we eat more chemicals in our food then we ever have and our environment sure isn't getting any cleaner. We also have higher cancer rates than ever. Coincidence? Not likely.

Until we find a cure for cancer or a way to prevent it, we control it. Controlling it costs money. Ergo...higher health costs. I'm not complaining. I have seen firsthand what cancer does more often than I care to. I will continue to fight the disease in every way I can. However, we must acknowledge the fact that controlling it costs alot of money.

I think you essentially misread the my post.

 

I personally think that a lot of cancer cases come from eating too much bratwurst and cheese curds!

 

In combination with cheap beer, it's a deadly combination!

 

Thank you Sean. Couldn't have said it better...

 

"Due North, most of the guys here at the wera bbs are blue color, ex miltary, jesus loving all americans, trying to argue with these brain washed farts is like going to the friggin zoo and trying to discuss quantum physics with a bunch of chimps."


Too weird! I am wronged, complimented and insulted at the same time.

Wow, incoming stereotypes! Take cover!

All idiots have their heads up their butts. (I'm shooting back)

 

Zeb, No I'm not Nate. I'm Doug and I didn't want somebody else catching any grief for my post.

 

Hi all,

One person posted that doctors and hospitals set prices. That is untrue. There is a great deal of friction b/w the providers and the insurers about rates. I regularly hear stories of doctors no longer accepting this or that insurer or ceasing performing this or that procedure because the insurers refuse to pay an acceptable amount. In my field (as soon as I graduate), psychotherapy, insurers absolutely set their own rates. Often the Usual and Costumary Rate (UCR) is approximately half to two-thirds of the actual customary rate.

My suspicion is that cancer rates are on the rise, not just in relation to living longer, but in absolute terms. That suspicion could be confirmed by someone who has access to the data. My other suspicion is that we are increasing cancer rates by the toxins we place in our bodies and in our environment.

The boomers are absolutely going to have a dramatic effect on the cost and practice of healthcare (just like everything else they touch). Our nations' aging demographic will have a profound impact on healthcare, the cost of housing, the viability of social security, and so on. For an accelerated example, witness Japan.

Finally, I am impressed by the breadth of knowledge of the people contributing to this list, especially the folks who are using their information to disagree with other folks.

thane

 

Hey Thane!

Not entirely untrue, but you have a point.

What I was/am refering to is this. A hospital is not unlike any other company. It sets a budget needed every year to make a profit. Part of that budget is the amount of money they will get from the US govt. to offset the costs of treating un-insured patients.

Now, as we all know, that's an amount that fluctuates. Alot. In rapid order.

If it happens to go downward, as these things usually do, the hospital has a shortcoming in it's budget. Not acceptable. So they make it up the best way they can: from insured patients. Or, in short, the insurance companies.

If ya'all think that the price you pay for common tests and diagnostics (X-rays for example) is the price it costs the hospital to run them, nope. Sure, it's supplies, salary, administrative overhead, etc.. There's also inevitably a little extra somethin' somethin' to help offset budget shortfalls.

As somebody previously mentioned, the people with income help pay for the people without. That doesn't just happen via the taxes you pay to the govt. It also happens via the prices you pay for services in the private sector. Especially in healthcare.

All IMHO, worth the .02 you paid for it.

 

There is currently a big fight in Savannah between Blue Cross/ Blue Shield (BC/BS) and the local hospitals and doctors. The providers are telling BC/BS that they won't contract with them any further without some changes. Some of it may be rate agreements.

Your insurance company sets the rates YOU are obligated to pay IF you use an in-network facility. If your provider contracts with your insurance company at a certain rate, they become "in-network". That is what your cost are based on.

To say that the doctors and hospitals don't set their own rates... I don't agree. Right now that is in dispute with BC/BS in Savannah. All may agree, in the end. That doesn't mean the insurance company sets the rates, though.

 

Just to give you an idea of the markup at the hospital. When I worked in claims and we did a US claim, once we were satisfied that the claim was legit and eligible we would offer the hospital 65% of the bill paid in week - with no questions asked. You know what, they took it every time.

The alternative was a cranky old lady that would take apart the bill one line at a time and questioning everything.

 

I don't really want a piece of this, but I'm going to be stupid and make a couple of comments.

First, insurance companies sell product. They are not in the healthcare business at all. you buy a product from them and that includes some healthcare services to be delivered by someone else. They pay themselves first and then some money goes into the "risk pool" that covers you. About 3 years ago the director of Aetna's medical insurance plan was fired. He nearly bankrupted them. His penalty was to receive his 1.2 million salary and a 1.5 million bonus. That's more than I can make in 15 years at 60 hours a week. Aetna called us and said they were in financial distress, so they were cutting our compensation by 30%. Yes, they are part of the escalating cost of healthcare in the U.S. They have big salaries at the top and lots of stockholders who need dividends.

Scarbs is correct about Tenncare. they pay us 10 cents on every dollar we bill. To politicians, everything is a political football. If anyone wonders what would happen if they ran the medical system, look at Tenncare.

New technology costs big money. The costs will continue to rise.

Drugs cost less in both Canada and Mexico. I just saw a printed brag by one company that said they sell AIDS drugs in Africa for 10% of the U.S. cost. The drug lobby in the U.S. congress is better funded than the entire continent of South America. It is their job to support the current U.S. pricing arrangement by influencing your congressman. They are successful. These costs will continue to rise.

HMO's have driven hospital profits to rock bottom. That's why none of them have adequate nursing staff. The 3 biggest expenses for hospitals are drug costs, equipment costs, and the cost of meeting federal regulations. Before he died several years ago, the humorist/columnist Art Buchwald did a little piece explaining why a head of lettuce would cost more than $11 if you bought it at cost from a doctor - due to the cost of meeting federal regulations. The costs of meeting federal regulations will continue to rise. And more regulations are being added every year.

I have taken a pay cut every year for 5 years. As have most doctors. There are some whom even I consider to be overpaid, but the ones in primary care are not them. Before his recent job change, one of my computer geek friends - a soldier, not a supervisor - was making $30K a year more than me for 40 hour weeks. (I run closer to 60) I regret that this cost will probably not go up.

You cannot be turned away from an ER in the U.S. There is a law against it. We shuffle ICU beds, we juggle, we do all kinds of stuff, but if you are really sick, you get in. Some of the "for profit" hospitals can be pretty brutal about getting you out of the ER if you are sick but not near death, but I'm not aware of any critical patient getting turned away.

We doctors DO NOT know the answer. We struggle with this as much as you do. I personally favor federalization of the healthcare system because I was in the military (not as a doctor) a long time and I know it means that I will get annual pay raises, 14 paid holidays a year, 30 days of paid vacation, paid continuing medical education, full medical and dental and optical benefits. I wouldn't take a pay cut because I'm already at the bottom of the scale. Right now I only take about 12 days off a year total (mostly to race). The "federal package" would be like a $50K a year raise for me. Did I mention retirement benefits? Bring it on!!! Of course, as a government employee I'll be able to cut my hours back, see fewer patients.......................

Like I said, we don't have the answer, either.

 

What you said about the ins co's 65% is absolutly true. But don't try that if you're paying out of pocket. You are going to pay 100% and right now.

 

Lets hear applause for bad iguana. He sees it and has to work with it. It's the neckties and their money. Shakespear said"first we have to kill all the lawyers" timeless writings.