Transponders

I won't comment on the cost of the transponders - I'm certain there will be extensive comments from others.

Mounting a transponder on a front fork tube is an extremely poor choice of location. The transponder must either be mounted on the movable lower leg where it will be subjected to high G forces or high on the forks above the lower triple tree where the signal is futher away from the track pickup. It doesn't matter if the transponder has a 5 year warranty if it gives up in the middle of a race due to the G forces it's subjected to. Even if the transponders are "designed" for the lower fork mounting, the loads will necessarily make them less reliable than if mounted in a less stressful location. The correct location for a transponder is mounted low on the fairing or low on the frame on unfaired bikes.

 

Oh c'mon. Are you the engineer that designed the unit? If so, then speak up.

This sounds like just another way to bitch about having transponders required for 2004.

Just because we ride old bikes doesn't mean we have to think and act in outdated mindsets. I wholeheartedly welcome transponders. I will be willing to bet a year from now the vast majority will embrace the technology and wonder how we ever raced without it.

Think of the insight and strategy you can gain by analyzing competitors lap times and setting new goals for your riding. Finally the BS will stop regarding who is turning what lap times. I think this is going to be so cool. I can't wait.

 

transponders

The way my bike shakes, it will be in pieces in one day.

 

I`m for transponders BUT I think there may be a better location to mount them.

 

I'm not against transponders and electronic timing - in fact, I would hope AHRMA goes to a similar system (same system, so I don't have to buy two different ones). I just think the front forks are a poor location for a transponder due to the accelerations transmitted from bumps, etc. There are better places on a bike for a transponder, in my opinion. Maybe someone with design knowledge of these particular units can comment. Perhaps they aren't up to the higher frequency engine vibration transmitted to the bike's frame from a solid mount engine, so the front forks may be a better choice.

 

You are sick you need your head looked at.You want technology go ride a modern bike.the more I think about this the more pissed I get.It sucks!!!!!!

 

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?threadid=38071&perpage=30&highlight=transponders&pagenumber=4

Check about half way down the page....it's a shame we weren't asked.

 

Boo Hoo Tim. I ask you, what is wrong with advances in technology? Even when applied to vintage iron? How about the advances in tire technology? I think we would all agree that one has been great for the sport, vintage bikes included. Or how about brake pads? They certainly are better today than 20 years ago?

In any event, we all know which side of this debate will win - Mongo's side, so deal with it.

I'll add one tidbit for the peanut gallery: "If you can't measure it, you can't manage it." In other words, how do you expect to improve if you don't have data to back up you're perceived improvements on the race track? The transponders will help riders and add a fun element to the race day.

 

I'm not pissed, but with the size fields we have at most WV races, I can't justify the cost. Why buy something we just don't really need?
We're not putting them on for the Spring Classic, are we? I hope not.

 

Joe my point is that this is a very exspensive lap timer and thats all you get.And as far as tire go I don't run slicks and still run 18'' rims and no new f2 frontend.

 

I hear ya Tim. IMO, I don't think it is outrageously expensive at $260. Do I have the extra $260 laying around? No. But, I'll find it somehow. I think the price is reasonable considering the knowledge value it will bring.

 

cost/performance

My issue with this is that it does not provide enough of a benefit to me. I need an on board lap timer, If I am to improve more I need real time info on what I am doing or at least VERY timely info (as soon as I come in from practice). I guess these will only provide lap times/info to the main computer? It would be nice if there was an onboard display that gave me lap times. I could justify 50% of the purchase price by not purchasing a dedicated lap timer....

There is little doubt in my mind as to the reliability of these even mounted to the fork tube and they are guaranteed anyway.

As far as WERA Vintage goes I think this will hurt the attendance for some time and possibly even on a long term basis, small grids will get even smaller……… As pointed out in the general thread, we always re-start races with the original grid positions, no benefit for Scoring there, I think they have to run some sort of backup manual scoring so the people will still be there…. What is the real tangible benefit for WERA Vintage / Vintage riders here?

It seems the argument here centers around cost and reliability questions, I think the real question is again what benefit?

 

RENT TO OWN

What I proposed is that every time you rent a transponder it counts towards you finally owning one. Not that you keep the thing untill it is paid for. After you have rented one say seven times you just keep the last one you rented. Keep your receipts to show your rent history.

 

What benefit will it bring? The vintage grids are smaller than the modern grids so I can't see it really being a benefit to lap scoring. There are as far as I can ascertain, no itentions to start timed practice. It has already been stated that stopped races will be regridded as per original start positions.

I'll add one tidbit for the peanut gallery: "If you can't measure it, you can't manage it." In other words, how do you expect to improve if you don't have data to back up you're perceived improvements on the race track? The transponders will help riders and add a fun element to the race day.

We don't compete in time trials, we are out on the track to race, the idea is to try to get across the finishing line before anyone else. The measure of improvement comes from beating others, it doesn't matter how fast you go, as former GP rider and TT winner Peter Williams once said "I try to win at the slowest speed possible"

If lap times are that important, a lap timer is the way to go and I also believe that these can be set up to provide 'split' times as well, which the transponders won't be.

I can see the benefit for the modern bikes with the size of the grids, but for us in vintage I think it's an unecessary expense.

 

I'm with tim, the more i think about it the madder i get . I ran v4 at nashville last year and was the only bike on the grid.Why do i need a transponder? Do we have to have one for the spring fling ? May help in my decision on attending.

 

Fireball has a great idea.

I believe Mongo is NOT going to require the transponders at JGP on 2/27/04. However, I think he plans to have them available if you want them.

Regarding the issue of keeping times, etc. Do you guys set any goals when you get to the track? Do you care if you improve? Well, I do. I have lap times written down for each event I have attended in a log book when I have had someone available to time me. Most races I travel alone to, so getting times is tough. Knowing that the accuracy and consistency of timing will be good, is very beneficial IMO. I'd rather buy the unit from WERA with a warranty and excellent resale value than buy another unit that if it breaks I'm SOL.

 

Do you guys set any goals when you get to the track? Do you care if you improve?

My goals are to try to beat Doug Bowie and Scott McCain. If I do I'll know that I've improved. Fast lap times are just a by-product of that. Mind you if I ever beat them by not going any faster than I do now it wouldn't bother me, as I said earlier, it's a race, the first under the linen wins.

 

joe,
alot of vintage riders ride the old bikes sometimes for other reasons than improving lap times. the sound and smell of a certain bike they always wanted to own and race being a big reason to even be at the track. some guys come from a more competitive perspective and we know who you...er those guys are.

 

I already know what my lap times are don't you ?we won't get any split times so what will you gain other than seeing other peoples lap times and I only care about mine .I guess if you don't have any one with you to take lap times you could find it usefull.

 

Well, this one certainly is controversial!! Honestly, I'm all for it. In 9 years of racing, I've always struggled to get accurate lap times on myself and my competition. For this fact alone, the price of admission is worth it. It's also good to see WERA getting with the times and implimenting new technology. As for vibration/reliability issues: forget it. These things are bullet-proof and even if they do break, they're warrantied.
HOWEVER:
I think it's wrong for WERA to:
A) Implement this without asking ALL of it's members for their opinion.
B) Make it mandatory for all competitors. (Especially Vintage riders who, in general, are more "hobbiest" in nature than the typical WERA racer)
C) All of the above, 2 MONTHS BEFORE THE FIRST RACE!!!!!

Bitching won't change a thing though. WERA has decided and that is that. As happy as our co-dependant relationship with WERA is, it's not always perfect. This is just one example. Before anyone starts a "lets ditch WERA and run our own org!!" thread, consider how much your costs for racing would go up if we didn't have WERA to subsidize: Track rental, insurance, safety crew, ambulances, officials and other sundry costs associated with racing. When you look at it that way, $260 seems kind of cheap!!
At least we can now tell who REALLY is turning '19's at Savannah!!