So you're sipping champagne on your business jet at 34,000 feet…

And this shit happens!

It's bad enough you have to watch for that shit on approach/landing or takeoff…

 

Mother f er. Good thing Goose didn't hit the canopy.

 

wake turbulence is a myth, like Santa Claus, the Easter bunny or Tl/dr Tolstoy posting 2 word replies.
pilot probably sneezed or got distracted doing lines of coke of the Stews butt.

 

I remember coming into LAX once and the pilot said we hit the wake of a 747, if I remember correctly. We rocked back and forth 3 times and it scared the crap out of everyone on board. It was bad enough I didn't know if I was biting the big one or not?

 

Wow.....just wow!

 

GoPro or it didn't happen.

 

Hmmmm I am betting there is more to this story.

I have no doubt they had an upset, but how much of it was pilot induced over-reaction, remains to be seen. I have flown the 604, it has an incredible roll rate, very responsive controls. It can be easily over controlled if you're agressive with it.

We may never know, as these third world countries don't do much in the way of investigation.

 

Germany is now a 3rd world country?...

 

That's reich...

 

Ach! Jawohl!

 

I heard about this from a buddy that flies a Challenger last week. Pilots were apparently very cool headed, talented, and probably just fucking lucky.

Leaving Denver Thursday was the wildest ride I've had in a jet. This story was fresh in my mind, considering the CRJ I was on was probably smaller than that Challenger..haha

 

Sorry I thought this happened in the Middle East. We will certainly know what happened at some point, if ZE GERMANS are involved.

 

While on this topic, does anyone watch Air Disasters? The series that dissects how & why certain airplane crashes happen. A week or so ago they focused on the Asiana? 777 that crashed in San Francisco. Freaking scary how aircrew cultures/interaction can cause major incidents.

 

It did happen in the ME but one has to guess the Challenger was from a German airline (the article doesn't say) if their investigators are involved....

 

Im assuming the autopilot was on. Was this wake turbulence too severe for the autopilot to maintain wings level flight?

 

The Arabian Sea is in Germany?

 

I've watched some of them. Kinda scary how many have been caused by pilot error.

 

Every autopilot has limits. At some point it will disconnect, and if you're not paying attention, it can disconnect and leave you with a handful of airplane to recover. The reason being, the autopilot will trim the aircraft so that the servos only have to put minimal pressure into the controls. So if it gets way out of trim, then disengages, you can be suddenly confronted with a bad situation. Boeing has upgraded their software to start putting alerts on the instruments when the autopilot is trimming heavily or putting a lot of input into the controls, to let the pilots know it's about to disengage and it's fighting something.

In this case, the autopilot probably didn't have time to do any trimming, but it fought the roll for a second or two, then kicked off. If the pilot didn't have his hands on the controls, it probably began to roll immediately, and this is a situation where the pilot can easily over control, especially in a jet with hydraulic controls like the 604.

Probably more than you bargained for with this post, but it's Sunday and the pilot forums are all bitching and moaning, I don't even go there anymore.

 

I watch this show all the time. I already know about most of the accidents, but a lot of the episodes in the show are from foreign airlines, so we may not know as much about them. Seems kind of macabre, but there's always something to be learned. Even the pilot error ones, you want to understand what led them to make the error- nobody goes to work thinking I'm going to crash this airplane today.

The Asiana accident is pretty complex, there are a lot of root causes. But IMO it comes back to pilots not flying the airplane as much as they need to to remain proficient. The Airbus and it's associated philosophy of control exacerbates the situation. The Captain was training on the 777, he came off the Airbus. On the Airbus, the throttles don't move, you place them in a detent for takeoff, and then you leave them there for the whole flight, the computers / autothrottles / autopilot make all the thrust changes without the levers moving. On a Boeing, the same things happen, but the computer actually physically moves the throttles to adjust power.

So, if you came off the Airbus, and you're expecting the thrust to come up automatically, you would not expect to see the throttles move. However, if you're in a Boeing, and you are expecting the thrust to increase, but the throttles aren't moving, you KNOW the thrust isn't increasing. This guy just came off the Airbus, so he may have expected the thrust to increase and didn't realize for a few critical moments that it wasn't.

As I said, there were many other factors, but by the time they realized the thrust was not advancing, they were in a pretty low energy state that was not really recoverable. Why they allowed it to get to that point is another story.

I landed in SFO about a week after the accident, it's a sobering sight seeing a burnt out hulk of a 777 next to the runway.

 

Wow, that's pretty interesting.
Can you hear anything at all from upfront when you make a power adjustment? It's pretty easy to tell from the passenger cabin.