Anyone have experience having their sewer re-lined? We've had 6 backups in the last three years, and I'm about sick of having a plumber come out every 6 months, not to mention this last backup is going to cost me a nice shop-vac (I'm going to burn it). We have a clay sewer line, and we had it camera'ed last summer. The pipe is not surprisingly consumed by roots - there is a maple tree on the Devil's Strip, right above the run of the line. Otherwise, it's in good shape. Nothing is collapsed and it's running downhill with no bows. The company that camera'ed it last summer quoted us $12K (!) for 100ft of re-line - all the way out to the main, which would be 20 ft past the city's easement. There would also be demo required at the clean-out, and new 4x4 section of floor would need to be poured. The company that snaked it today for us said they could do it for $4.5K, and it only needs relined to the easement (80ft) since the city is responsible for anything past that. There would also be no demo/construction at the clean-out in the basement. So, anything I should look out for? The two companies use competing technologies - LMK vs Performance Liner. Would it be cheaper to have it trenched the old-fashioned way? Sucking it up and snaking it every 6 months isn't to be much of an option - the wife and kids find a lack of working facilities annoying. Thanks, John
For an hour's work every 6 months, versus $12k? I'd spend the money on a drain snake and do it myself until the line was in need of replacement, then rent an excavator and dig it up and replace with PVC.
I've had a relining done since my house is on a hill and things get tricky up here. 12k sounds about right. They usually charge about 120/foot. However, I was able to negotiate down to about 80/foot I think (however, I had something like 280 ft to do!). Anyone who will do it for 4.5k probably isn't worth using. That's very low for that job and I would be concerned with the quality of the work. All that said, I'm not a plumber, but I certainly researched the hell out of it.
Typically it is the City responsibility from the property line to the main. You probably want to call the sewer department and ask a few questions, they will also have a set of guidelines for you to follow. If you are not going under your driveway or addition to your house I would look at either doing the work, it does get a little shitty, sorry just had to add that. Hire a kid down the street and let him dig the ditch. PVC is really easy to use. You don't have to go in straight line, just use a 22 or 45 bend and place a cleanout at each bend. Dig and replace should be much cheaper. Call a couple of plumbers. Save the 12k for your racing budget.
To be clear, the relining is a PVC-like pipe, it's just more flexible so it can traverse the path better as it breaks the clay out of the way.
Sliplining is basically pulling a new pipe through the old, and results in a smaller pipe I.D. than previously installed. This may not be allowed by plumbing code due to minimum service lateral diameter usually being 4". Pipe bursting requires pulling a mandrel through the old pipe, bursting it along the way and creating a larger space, so a new full-size pipe can be pulled in behind the mandrel. This works great for clay pipe, btw. New pipe is usually HDPE. CIPP (cured in place pipe - usually some kind of fabric sock impregnated with resin) requires pipe cleaning, pull new CIPP line in place, inflate sock with hot water to expand and cure lining. All are effective 'trenchless' methods. Trenchless is a bit of a misnomer as you still have to dig a pit at the lateral connection to the house, and maybe another at the downstream end of the lateral if it doesn't connect directly to a manhole. A single lateral offers no economy of scale, so you have to weigh the disruption, landscaping, PITA cost of open trenching against the trenchless methods. For a deep lateral in a tight space, trenchless wins. Shallow lateral, open ground with minimal surface improvements, open cut wins.
My friend almost did a re-line. But I informed him you can't push a 4" turd through a 3" line! He went for a new sewer line.
Relined mine myself, it was 6"clay tile though. We still ran 3 inch. Tore up a section out side and started pushing pipe. Get a cam to run in it when you do it so you can be sure when to stop. Very simple process.
Why not just install a brand new line? I know things are different in other parts of the country, but excluding whatever needs to be done to the floor, installing a new 4" PVC line all the way to the tap would be less than a $1200 dollar job here. I'm a builder so I know how to easily accomplish this, but this isn't outside the scope of what a homeowner can do if you already have a plumber. Heck, you could easily install the pipe too if you don't mind getting dirty. Backhoe (3 hr min) $250 100' pipe $200 Fittings $100 (prob less) plumber labor -under $500 rent bobcat 1/2 day and backfill ditch $150 straw and grass seed $100 I hooked a rental house that I have onto city sewer a while back because the septic tank kept backing up. I only had to go about 50' but I had to have the city install a tap which was more than $500 if I remember correctly. My total cost in that was about $1200 including the tap. Any amount for something that won't be nearly as good as a new line just sounds ridiculous to me.
Just wondering why your sewer is consistently getting blocked? No roots, pipe isn't collapsed? What kind of slope is it running at, too shallow or too steep?
This. Even if you've got to pay someone $150 every six months or so it's still way cheaper than dropping 12k. And keep in mind that the more female residents you have the greater the stress on your waste pipe. Know what I mean, Dern?
You need to get rid of the maple tree. I'm not sure what Devils' Strip means? Is it in what we mid-westerners call the parkway? Between the sidewalk and street? How to get rid of the tree without anyone knowing you killed it? Used to be, you'd drill holes in the tree, fill them with salt, tree dies, city crew removes tree. City crews are more aware of that now, there's a chance someone will hold you accountable for killing a tree. Keep in mind, I'm the last one that wants to kill a tree. It makes it easier if there is a ring of mulch around the tree, pile it up a few inches at the base. Every time you mow, get out the weed-whacker, push away the mulch, and run it around the trunk, removing the bark, down to the meat of the tree. Using a foam paint brush, paint the wound you just opened up with pure Round-Up, the stuff that comes in a small bottle that you're supposed to dilute. Don't dilute it, just brush it on straight out of the bottle. Kick the mulch back up. Do this every week, tree will slowly die, call city, they remove for free, root problem solved.
Hey, thanks for all the responses - so we're clear, I'm not going with the 12K reline. Maybe if the clogged main was caused by me extruding gold bricks, I'd do that. The devil's strip (bit of land between sidewalk and street) and the maple is within the easement for the City. I need to call them on Monday and see what their policy of cleaning the roots from the main line inward is, since some of the issue resides on the their side. I'm not against renting a backhoe and tackling the issue myself - however it appears the line is a good 12-14ft below the grade of my front yard, and our gas line is (probably) close (if not in-line) with where I'd need to dig. Those two issues make it out of my comfort zone for excavating it myself. The second company who offered the 4.5k reline (and 2 pages of referrals) advised that for around $300 we could have the line cleaned with a hydrojet - that would cut the roots back to the wall of the line and would buy us a few years - maybe more if I was diligent with the application of root-x. As for letting the issue fester and put up with a bi-annual cleaning, that buys me nothing except a smelly basement when it backs up. Fixing the issue will only get more expensive in the future as the clay pipe degrades and collapses from the root intrusions. I'd rather take care of it while I have a fairly good idea of what I'm in for. I don't like ticking time-bombs. I need to get a few quotes on having it trenched and compare the ass-ache of having a destroyed front yard with the cost of a re-line. Thanks again everyone. John
12' to 14' is a lot deeper than it should be unless it needs to be that deep to gravity drain. If going with a new line you only need to go as deep as necessary to meet the code, and your sewer provider should be able to tell you exactly how deep their main line is where you tie into it. From there it would be simple to figure out what the digging requirements would be for a new line. Your state probably has a one call system where all you have to do is make one phone call and every provider who provides an underground service to your house will come out and mark their lines. That way you know with a reasonable degree of certainty where the gas line is. In my area everything on your side of the sewer main would be your responsibility. I'd be surprised if it's different in your situation. I've done the hydro jet thing before, and it does work. If you go that route you should have it inspected with a camera after so that you know it's clear. Roots tend to proliferate though, so even with something like RootX you'll be back in the same boat before long. The bad thing about temporary fixes is inevitably you'll have another problem on a holiday or when there is a foot of snow on the ground. These things never go wrong when it's convenient to repair them, plus if it backs up into your bath tub or shower each time it happens that's a nasty problem to have to deal with. Good luck, and don't be afraid to tackle it yourself.
If its roots pour a half pound of copper sulfate down the drain every other week and your problem will be gone as long as you keep doing it.
I'm not certain the 2yr old is taxing the shitter shuttle too much. But a 70 year old waste line got a good rooterin' last week, so now the kitchen & laundry drain, drains. :up:
Put a new line in don't do the re-line. Figure around 3-4k to do it right. More if the line is over 75 feet.
