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safety issues

Discussion in 'General' started by turn3, Aug 17, 2000.

  1. turn3

    turn3 Guest

    I need feedback from all of you baby geniuses out there in WERA BBS land. What could, would, should, be done about rider safety?I'm not talking about any one entity in particular-just in general. Each organization handles things differently. Everybody has got a horror story of what "could've" been done after the fact. We are not going to fix the problem by talking about the "problem"-let's all talk about solutions. I promised a dear friend I would help him-to try to channel his energy and grief into something positive. I know you've all talked about at some point so let's hear some solutions.
     
  2. Eric_77

    Eric_77 Well-Known Member

    A strong enforcement from the race director of unsafe riding. When someone shows that they are not capable of controlling a bike on the track they need to be sent back to riders school. A central file at WERA would help keep track of incidents for people who run different regions.
    AFM has a policy of crashing I believe 3 times in a season and you are done for the rest of the year. I think that is pretty drastic but it makes you think doesn't it?
     
  3. Due North

    Due North Source of Insanity

    I would like to see a safety meeting held at some point after the riders have had a chance to go out and before the racing commences. The meeting does not have to be long, but it would give us an opportunity to get together and discuss anything that we may not like about the track and give WERA officials the opportunity to explain any changes that they have made proactively.

    Also, based on the recent discussions on this BBS, rough riding should also have a section in the rulebook along with precisely defined and harsh punishments. Like first offence you're done for the weekend, second offence loss of all points and a 4/6/8 week suspension and a return to riders school, third offence you're done for the year, forth offence you're done for good.

    I wonder if WERA and CCS et. al. share information on rough riders, suspensions,... If not, maybe they should start.

    Mike Hodgson Jr.
    #392
     
  4. Number400

    Number400 Well-Known Member

    I keep seeing lap times dropping on tracks that have not changed or been improved. Every season I race, I have to dig a little deeper into myself to keep competitive (LW classes). My laptimes in my Novice seasons which would keep me in the top 3, would be mid pack times now. This is on the FZR400 and older racebikes, so new technology is not really an issue in this case. People are pushing harder and harder to keep up. Newer Novices do not have years of racing under their belts and are pushing hard with no backup plan or skills/experience. I believe this is causing the increase in serious rider injuries and on track collisions. The 600 class is popular and pays cash...incentive to try too hard!

    Comments?
     
  5. CharlieM#90

    CharlieM#90 Well-Known Member



    uhhhh.......isn't that one of the purposes of the *Riders Meeting* .....????

    Charlie McCullough WERA #90 Ex
     
  6. td930

    td930 Well-Known Member

    so far so good. i still thinks that it all starts at the riders school.

    the mock race for sure should sort out the not so "prepared" student. after all day in "racers" school, a mock race of 4 laps doesn't provide the instructors with enough info about some students. of course the school may have a student coming back after a few years out of racing and still has or is able to demonstrate what it takes to get back into the flow.

    the questionaire filed by the new student is certainly a tool for the instuctors to rely on.

    qusetion#4 ....WHAT IS YOUR RIDING EXPERIENCE?______________________

    should be right after questions:
    #1name #2adress #3phone

    "street riding only" if is the answer....coupled with :
    intentions to go racing this weekend....
    should really be looked at HARD.

    thats how i'd run my school. if you've never raced on a track, have only street riding abilty, your gonna have to prove to me you can suit up and race with the plates!
    that'd be proven with a more intense "mock" racing format. let the carnage happen within the confines of the school!

    certainly, crashes are going to happen and this isn't the end all to the problem. but what iv'e seen this year is really pitiful.

    i know "sayings" abound such as:
    "i have to go to work on monday" etc.
    " we're only club racers"......

    as experienced racers, we see a hole, we go for it. even amongst the highly polished racers, close, clean racing is what thrills us. we do not attempt it foolheartedly. that is the key and that is what the student needs to have engrained into his noggin'.

    like a runningback in football, he knows where the play is going, it's been called by the quarterback or coach and there is supposed to be a hole
    there....but...sometimes it ain't....other alternatives are sought immediately, right?
    he has to do something "positive" to advance the ball and to conserve his physical wellbeing.

    o.k. i'm running on but i hope ideas can start to flow as to creating a "safer" (if that word can fit into racing) environment!

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Due North

    Due North Source of Insanity

    Most of what I've heard at riders meetings is race format, schedule,.... I think a quick meeting for the specific purpose of safety would be effective because riders will be thinking specifically about safety and not schedules, race order, 1/2 wave starts,.......
     
  8. robw122

    robw122 Well-Known Member

    i know there is a section in the rule book about minimum lap times, but i can't ever remember seeing it enforced.
     
  9. turn3

    turn3 Guest

    valid points-thank you.
    meetings would help for sure-but what really constitutes "safe". figure that out and we'll be in business. The bad thing about this discussion is that safety seems to be a relitive term-right? Everybody does it different. The AMA didn't put hay bays in front of a concrete wall until Jamie Bowman was killed. How wasteful was that?
    This sport isn't by any stretch of the imagination safe but there has got to be a point where you guys go around the track and breathe a little easier instead of silently praying in your helmet "please just don't let me get pitched off here"
     
  10. td930

    td930 Well-Known Member

    ok turn3....safety lies in the hands of track mgt and the sanctioning body. they are the ones responsible to walk the track and identify unsafe or potential danger area.
    sean has said that he does such. in another thread somewhere on this bbs, someone mentioned hay bales at road a...and i responded, what hay bales. were there hay bales in the esses? NO...what about t12....i didn't see any. as far as the ama goes, if you remember the riders walked out and off and cancelled the week at ...ohh brain fade...what track???anyhow the rider rep, doug chandler and of course matt mladin said ain't no way we're racing here...is that what we need to do?

    if not the antics of wild new racers...than the blame lies with the aformentioned. if higher entry fees pay for haybales or air fences, i'm all for it. i know other racers will say my budget is shoe string at best. once again, if a racer has to let one weekend slide in order to afford the next race weekend, i think that approach is in his/her best interest.

    and diggin' up the dirty thang again. if it hadn't been for my belly pan last week at road a, in the fastest part of the track...well [​IMG]... any safety item which docks the pocket book upfront pays huge dividends later..se' lavee', mon cherie
    [​IMG]
     
  11. wera176

    wera176 Well-Known Member

    It was enforced at Road Atlanta during a Solo 20 this year. This guy was doing lap times on a 750 (during a race) that were slower than my first practise session on my FZR400 (and it was my first time at the track, and I'm slow!) But that was an extreme case.

    I image that the officals hate to enforce that (except in extreme cases) especially when the rider in question is a PN with a orange shirt... They have to learn sometime, we were (are) beginners at one time. Remember also that it is the passer's responsiblity to safely pass (although extreme differences in speed make this more difficult). I wonder if there could be some sort of qualifing time required before you can take off the orange shirt... Like after your two weekends, an official clocks you during a race (or practise) to see if you are fast enough to become a Novice instead of a PN... Perhaps there is a lap time requirement before you even get your license, as part of the mock race perhaps. This would of course be based on what type of bike you are on... While we are talking about shirts, folks have mentioned rough-riders, perhaps after a 2nd warning (or something like that) the rough rider has to wear a shirt for the weekend as a warning to others, kinda like a scarlet letter. The affect would be more from the stigma of the shirt than the warning...

    Just some random ramblings....
     
  12. turn3

    turn3 Guest

    Td930-perfect. those measures may sound extreme to some, but not to me. maybe there should be a kitty fund for extras here and there. What is your butt worth, you know?
    I know there is no body in WERA-I cannot speak for all-that would intentionally skimp anywhere. But the key word here is intentionally. I know that I wouldn't mind contributing to some kind of fund to help out-not to injured riders-to precautions taken before the fact if need be. WERA is the only organization my husband races in that doesn't scare me to death-we've tried them all. You guys are wonderful people, with the best intentions, but there is always room for new ideas-maybe to be a little different or be a better than the rest of the crowd.
     
  13. joey-95v

    joey-95v Registered

    i don't know if it is all ready being done or not but instead of a riders school being only class room and track time also have corner working involved. this way the "newbies" can see how people are using the track and maybe see something that can't be learned or put into words in a class room. and have a discusion about what they saw while they where out there when they get back in the class room. i'm not saying that they actualy have to flag the corner but have them out there.

    as for track saftey, speak up at the riders it worked at richmond, the track wasn't 100% on sun. (needed a crane to move that wall) but it was better. even if it is about a rider. if you see someone in practice thats riding a little over there head tell an official to talk to them after the riders meeting, before races start.
     
  14. td930

    td930 Well-Known Member

    a safety fund would be good. to pay for the preventative measure would certainly be better before than later
    (new smilie):bump on the noggin:

    and what could that dollar figure be,
    1 additional dollar per person, racer,crew,spectator.etc.would probably do it. how bout it finance person wherever you are? extrapolate and cruch the numbers and give us the tale of the tape [​IMG]
     
  15. wera122

    wera122 Guest

    I know this has been mentioned in previous posts, but feel it's worth stating again.

    Know thy neighbor. Get to know the guys you race with. Become friends and help each other out. Respect each other on the track and pass as you would want to be passed. If you're not 100% sure you can make the pass without putting someone in jeopardy, then wait for another opportunity. Pretend you're passing your best friend and you both have to drive home in the same truck together. Think before you pass. Is it really necessary to stuff someone a couple turns before a long straight where you can just draft by?

    I think the cornerworking idea is an excellent one. I belong to a sportbike club that holds track days at Pocono and it's a requirement that you have to cornerwork one full day before you can ride.

    I would even be willing to cornerwork a practice day or 1/2 day in exchange for 1/2 day of practice. If you put a racer with a new cornerworker they will learn a lot more and probably take it more seriously. That way the racer can educate the cornerworker with real on-track experience, which will give life to what they learned in the cornerworker meeting.

    I'm not sure if WERA does this now, but maybe they could have a Safety Board that reviews each race weekend and all on-track incidents, taking approprate action where necessary.

    I also believe a clearly defined, strictly enforced penalty system for rough riding is necessary. Verbal/written warnings don't send the message all the time. Fines and/or suspensions are a good hard slap in the face that will make guys think twice before making a risky move.

    All good points guys. It seems like we're all concerned about safety, so let's be part of the solution to our concerns.

    Sean, do you have anything in the works, or can we form a Rider's Committee that meets to address and discuss safety issues? I'd be more than happy to hang around on a Saturday night for an hour or so.
     

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