race bikes with no titles????

I have been looking through classifieds and what have you for a race bike recently, and have come across a few adds for bikes with no titles(not on this bb). And i call and ask about they are like, "well. i just don't have it" not that they lost it, but they just don't have it. now this is some serious BS, i had my bike stolen last year so obviously this is cr@p if someone can race a bike with no title cause, if you lost it, call dmv and get another one. If you stole it,or bought it from someone who did w/o a title, then why don't more tracks check all bikes(not just natl events)? i can understand salvage titles and what not but this irks me cause i've been on the wrong side of this deal. I know how stolen bikes get recirculated(hell they have titles), but who actually buys a bike with no title? or how can you lose a title to a bike? sorry to rant but this just seems like BS to allow this to go on. if you can logically explain to me how a bike with no title and for some reason no vin number or frame number is allowed to race please do? also if anyone has a 2000+ race 600 for sale let me know(with clean/salvage title only)

sorry if this topic has been posted before, or if you legitimately race a bike with no title, but i just read a post here about a bike with no title(i think it was the same, not to many 2500 gsxr600's) also i thought i'd post my thoughts

lp
Timmy

[This message has been edited by timmy (edited 12-17-2001).]

 

No title doesn't always mean stolen, sometimes there is a paper trail that leads back to purchase, or frame change. but just a "don't have it", I'd beware. make sure there is a legitimate reason for no title, and run the VIN to make sure it isn't stolen.

 

Food for thought,
I have a 98 F3 that I dont have the title for, because it was a salvaged bike. I could get the title through the state of Florida if I wanted to pay the cost. I would watch anyone who just said " I dont have it". Sounds kinda fishy.

 

Get the VIN and call police dept, most larger dept's have a vehicle theft division you could call to verify. Don't call 911 they can't help.

 

Sometimes its fishy, but alot of bikes become untitled for honest reasons. Mechanic liens, The bike is crashed and the owner dies , bike is totaled and owner didn't have insurance, or didn't want to put in a claim with the ins Co/lien holder, etc. etc.
2 of my racebikes don't have titles, one was built by a mechanic out of spares and the other was a wreck I bought from a cop. And I have a pile of old vintage bikes that don't have titles, cause they were built and sold before some states HAD title requirements...
The reason they are so common and to look at untitled bikes is that you don't "need" a title for track duty, you are likely to destroy a frame/engine shortly anyway. And they are usually $1000s less than an identical bike with one.

If you are squeeky clean, perfectly law abiding good little boy. Then always insist on a clean title. If you never intend for a bike to see the street again and want to save $$$ you can get by with a VIN check and bill of sale.

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James Greeson
Senior Wannabe,
GS Posse

 

None of those are honest reasons sorry!!! I have been screwed over, file a mechanics lien and now you tell me it is okay for that person to say its okay I'm not going to use it on the street any more BS. and to say to the bank dude's dead or I crashed it sorry no more payments from me but I'm taking bike, gee and you wonder why full coverage insurance is expensive on sport bikes.

 

umm... huhh....

Could you try that again a bit more conherently please.

 

Sorry
Well if you don't get paid for doing work on house, car, boat, motorcycle, then you file a mechanics lein and that must be paid before the item is sold.

The bank also holds a mechanics lein (1st leinholder) and that must be paid before the item is sold so to circumvent the people that have money invested in that itnm is WRONG and illegal.

Once those leins are cleared then a bike can be legally sold and only then.

[This message has been edited by Eric_77 (edited 12-17-2001).]

 

exactly why ins is so high.

so, correct me if i'm wrong, if the owner dies in an acciden, what is it first come first serve at the scene of the crime if their is a lien on the bike? to see who can beat the insurance company out of a bike? I've bought alot of junk jeeps from junkyards, and i guess i must only go to the honest ones cause they won't let the frame leave unless they have the title to sell. As far as being a squeaky clean little boy(i understand your point about a vin check ie not stolen)but to help people beat out the ins/bank/mechanic is wrong), i guess it sucks that i'll think when i see a 98 gsxr 750 that was in mint condition next to me at the track next year that he felt like saving a boatload of money so he helped fund the stolen bike market. I could easily go out and steal a bike from the mall or wherever, hell even buy a stolen bike thats been renumbered, just being honest but thats not me, if this is the mentality of racers than thats BS. As far as buying a wreck from a cop with no title, is that better from buying it from a mint 2001/2 from Joe from newark, come on now, why didn't he have a title? cause he got it hot? and hes a cop so he never got caught. Is everyones mentality that its only illegal if you get caught? how much would it cost to fill out a lost title report in FLA? I don't know, i just think that there are so many stolen bikes out there that maybe organiztions could do a little more to prevent the ease of which stolen bikes are recirculated.

so does wera spotcheck titles often? ccs? i guess not. . . .

[This message has been edited by timmy (edited 12-17-2001).]

 

One part of your question was about VIN checks at races, and WERA tech takes a quick look at the vin on the frame to make sure that it appears to match the tech from being filed.

There, at times, have been posses show up and lock the front gate at races and check everyone including spectators for stolen/questionable bikes.

[This message has been edited by Joe (edited 12-17-2001).]

 

I meant to say (hey Its Monday) is that there are "legal" title-less bikes out there that aren't hot and aren't the object of a insurance fraud either. Especally with older bikes, sometimes titles just get lost, destroyed, whatever.
Would I touch a brand new bike being sold for thousands under value with no title? Of course not, I didn't fall off the turnip truck yestereday. But sometimes its an advantage.
Case in point:
My first street bike was a well worn '92 F2 racer. The guy I bought it from had bought it from a guy who owned a salvage yard. And he only had a salvage title on it, that my seller didn't get for whatever reason. I ran the VIN and it came back clean. Its paper trail ended at the salvage place, but it wasn't recorded as stolen, so I bought it. When I decided to sell it, I tried to go thru the motions of getting a valid title issued for it, but the Indiana DMV was less than helpful, the salvage yard had gone out of business and becasue it didn't have a matching frame & engine number, it wasn't worth the paperwork and headache to try to get a new title issued for it in GA. I finally sold it to a guy who races Formula 2000 cars, who wanted the motor and parted out the rest of the bike (I saw some of my bodywork at the GNF LOL!)

Its kind of a "if it were a perfect world", every frame would have a precisely annotated title, but this isn't...

 

I have never put any of my race bikes into my name. Why pay tax on a bike that will never see the street again.

Here in Ohio, it is something like 6.5% sales tax.

I did have titles to give the buyers, they just didn't have my name on them.

 

i totally understand if the bike was ten years old, even 5, but when the bikes is new low mileage, too good to be true deal, and people go for it and can get away with it is when something needs to be done. You can only get so far saying "he/she said it was fine" or "i just don't have it". kinda like your supposed to fight for the people who can't fight for themselves. don't buy hot stuff, put a stop to all this. Oh well, thanks for the discussion guys and i will continue my search for the "too good to be true" deal with a solid history/title
lp
Timmy

 

I agree with you Timmy, I would never knowingly buy a hot bike or part.

And you can get a "too good to be true" deal on a bike. its just that they are usually bent like pretzels.

 

Its not always BS. I bought a ZX6R from a guy in Atlanta with no title. The bike was donated to an AMA rider to race and was never registered. The MSO papers where at a shop in Atlanta initially. The bike passed through 4 racers then to me, by that time the papers were not able to be found at the shop. I called in the VIN # to see if it was stolen and the #'s came back with no history. Of course, it was never registered. I bought the bike and went to the clerks to apply for a title by signing an afidavide that I had bought the bike in good faith. I got the tag & registration that day and a title 2 weeks later.

WERA now makes you write down your VIN # on your tech sheet at regionals as well as Nationals.

In my case the guy that bought the bike would have to go back to who he bought it from, and that guy back one, and that guy back to the original owner who at the time was overseas, and try to get him to get the paper work taken care of yadayada..and you know that takes time.....it was faster to do it the way I did it.

Chuck D

[This message has been edited by gpracer15 (edited 12-17-2001).]

 

Hey Chuck,

How's the cherry picking SV search going?

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http://www.emgo.com/ibm/opedogg

 

Most deals that sound to good are too good but just recently my friend bought a 98 CBR 900 that was mildly crashed. The owner had paid for the bike up front, had no ins, and had no desire to fix nor did he know what it was worth. He sold it to us for $1350 with 7600 miles. I repaired the plastic and tank, repainted, replaced the left rear set, stator, stator cover, left bar and some other nik nak work and parts and it was complete for less than $2500. However I got burnt due to my partner which bought the bike and parts to fix and let it sit outside, it got stolen. He got the $5700 settlement and paid me $500 for fixing the bike and proceeded to tell me that after he paid off the loan, insurance, taxes, and interest he didnt make any money on the bike. F*%cker. I cant figure out what kinda calculator he was using.

[This message has been edited by gpracer15 (edited 12-17-2001).]

 

maybe this one

2500 bike
500 to you
1500-2000 for full insurance for year
300 taxes and license
300 interest
~ 5350 yep he split the profit with you it sounds like.

 

Salvage tiltles are not bad things. The title has a trail if the owner wrecks it and the insurance company pays it off it is sold to a auction yard and they sell it to who ever to get it on the street again the new owner must get it inspected at a state patrol place and pay @200 bucks they are the ones to sign off on the salvage part. Now if the new owner did not do this then the next guy to buy it is in a fix because the first guy is the one that can do it only. that is one way a bike gets no title.

 

Some states will cancel a title. Va will give ya a NON-REPAIRABLE CERTIFICATE(looks like a registration card). SC will cancel a title and all you get from the auction is copy of the letter from the state informing the auction that the title has been cancelled. Fla(and others) have unrebuildable TITLES, it looks like a title, but... never on the stree again. It just depends on the state. Check with the police and if in doubt....run away(and report the bastard)

ALSO there are there are some lowlife scum bike theives out there stealing our toys.