As I sit and wait for my new shorter 4 lap race I propose a new red flag rule. If your race caused the red flag that race is shortened by 1 lap. Instead of punishing the races at the end of the day for your red flag. I think we have had 4 today at Rd. Atlanta and that would be a whole race regained by docking the red flag races a lap. What say you Mongo?
That actually sounds like a good idea. If a race is stopped due to a red flag, it is automatically shortened by 1 lap (or more, depending on the length of the delay). I know on the World level when there is a red flag delay, they shorten the race so the other afternoon races arent affected. If you think about it, if a race is scheduled for say 8 laps, it gets 2 laps into it then a red flag, it only makes sense to completely restart the race, but only have it be 5-6 laps...rather than completely restarting it for 8 laps. With a full restart for full distance, not only do the guys that in that race essentially get an extra 2 laps free, but it means the racers later in the day could be punished 2 laps.
We already do that essentially - CMRA had a great rule that I stole - whatever laps the red flagged race has completed are left in the books and they only finish out the uncompleted laps using original grids. So today we had one with 2 complete - their first lap of the restart was the halfway point of their race and if it had been flagged again that would be it.
Yes this plus you get docked 1 lap for red flag, so that would have been the 2 in the books and 1 docked lap, so that would be total of 3 laps in the books. So restart of the original grid and 3 laps to complete a 6 lap race. So how many red flags did we have? I think one class had 2 red flags, so they should have been docked 2 laps and if they had completed any laps, that would have been added to the 2 docked laps. And if you get to the point with docked laps and completed laps that you are over the half way, then the rule of over half way and you have a red flag. Your race is complete. Revert back a lap to get your winner as you always do. And don't cut the races at the end of the day unless you absolutely have to. Then only cut those races by 1 lap instead of 2.
Huh? No docked one in the books, we only had half the field or so complete lap 3 so that HALF a lap didn't count. On the start as the bikes came around after the first lap of the restart that was the completion of lap 3 of the race as a whole, the restarted race was 4 laps total not three. If we'd had three complete the first time we'd never have restarted it. The race with 2 reds had one happen in T1 on the start - 0 laps complete for any rider. The second start is what I am talking about above. 2.5 complete laps when the red came out so the 2 full count, the .5 doesn't. I think there is also some confusion on reverting back laps - we don't revert back any full laps. We just remove partial laps. From the perspective of the race as a whole - not from an individual rider perspective. For us a race isn't over until all the bikes take checker, it isn't halfway until all the bikes take the halfway flags and so on. The entire field matters in those areas and the same for a red, a few bikes completing a lap doesn't mean that lap itself is complete - that take all the bikes (we do exclude lappers of course). Anyway - taking the race with a red on lap 2.5 as an example, if on the restart everyone takes the start and completes a lap, that is the completion of lap 3 of 6 for that race as a whole and any red after that there'd be no restart. On the call to shorten races, I had to go 2 laps. I do also prefer even lap counts for things like halfway points but by the time we finally got forced to make that call, 1 lap wouldn't have gotten us done when we needed to be and certainly not with some cushion for future issues. Cancelling races altogether is much worse than shortening them.
I would ad that any race that is red flagged twice be moved to the end of the day and call up the next race.
I agree with moving said race to end of day. Money, Because we pay for an event. If there happens to be 2 red flags within 2 laps, which did happen, and thrn on the next restart another red flag, and thats declared a race, in my eyes, you are not delivering a product I paid for. Altho I completely understand the time constraints, and the hassle it all creates. But if I or anyone spends money, they want product. Btw great weekend. All but the 1 1/2 main water line busting on top paddock and flooding my pit. Not a single person working for security new where the water main was. I luckily searched and found it.
Totally agree on the product - we basically sell two things, track time and awards. I resisted on cutting laps until I had no choice, as it was we still didn't get done until 5:30 - with no to only minor issues that should have been 4-4:30. We just ran out of time. On the red flags in C SS Novice - those riders all got 12 laps when they'd paid for 8 (including the warmup and cool down). So the riders in that race got the track time they paid for and more. The riders at the end of the day definitely got screwed. That's why I swap the event order around so it hopefully isn't happening to the same riders every bad event. And thank you for finding that shutoff! That would have sucked if it went all night until maintenance came in Saturday morning.
Not saying you docked a lap for the races this past weekend. That is the Proposed rule change. I'm saying take a lap away from the red flag race. You took total of 12 laps away from races that didn't cause any red flags, but none from the ones that had red flags. And I understand that everyone on the lead lap has to complete that lap for it to go in the books. But if you have a red flag at 2.5 laps, you go back to 2 laps then you dock the 1 lap for the red flag, so you would have 3 in the books. So that would mean you have 3 laps to go for a 6 lap race. Now if you have 3 in the books and red flag, plus the 1 dock lap, that puts 4 in the books, race over.
Removing 2 laps from the red flagged races wouldn't have mattered in the case of Sunday. The problem is if I take the 2 laps, add in a docked lap, it's halfway and race is done. So I could just change the rule to say if a race is red flagged at or near halfway we'll call it