Police attitude concerning missing children

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that, even in light of all the focus on child abductions and missing children we have seen in recent years, the police in Florida treated the disappearance of Carlie Brucia as a runaway for 24 hours?

As a father of an 11 year old girl myself, I find this very disturbing.
What drives this reluctance on the part of the police to react quickly to such an event? What is the worst that would have happened if they had committed resources to her disappearance immediately? Possibly a few less traffic tickets issued?

In case after case like this one, the first few hours are the most critical to the possible rescue or survival of the victim.
It would seem to make more sense to treat the disappearance of a child as a serious matter from the start rather than wait for evidence indicating that a less sinister occurence, such as a parental abduction or runaway, has not occurred.

If it was a cop who disappeared while on duty, would they have merely waited 24 hours or entered their name on the national runaway register? Somehow, I doubt it.

 

Sadly, that's how the SYSTEM works..............


And most cops will be directed to make revenue (write tickets to something) unless there is a big case to crack or a case involving powerful/famous people...............

 

Dude, trust me, the cops I know do not follow the 24hour "rule". If they know about the missing kid, you can bet they're keeping an eye out for the child and actively looking.

 

IYC:

God i hope you're wrong (although you usually are)!!

Seriously, i got a sick feeling in my stomache think about the girl and her parents that has been magnified by the thought that the police followed some 24 hour rule.

Is this really true?!?!?

 

The law does (doesn't always mean the cop with kids does). and in some places it's 48 hours.

 

That may be true, but my problem would be with the existence of this 24 hour wait as an official policy in the first place. I'm not saying individual cops on the street are heartless or indifferent, I'm saying the policy of those in charge is wrong. Certainly a concerted effort from the top down would be more effective than individuals doing their own thing.

 

I doubt it is the law, more likely it is standard accepted policy.
There's a big difference.

 

Check it out skeeter. May not be a "law" but a local or state practice.

Covers the state if the child is just out with a boy or girlfriend, just hiding out from mommy and daddy or just too stupid to find their way home.
Some parents would simply use the "my child is missing" to get back at ex's, boy or girlfriends or simply as a taxi service. It happens.

 

It is based on the fact that the VAST majority of children reported missing by their parents within 24 hours turn out to be simple runaways that are quickly found and back at home. My guess, based on my experience with cops, is that they get a hunch when this stuff is reported and take immediate action plus if there is nothing major pressing then they take immediate action.

It is my understanding that most police units have some sort of written time limit for these cases. To suggest that this is done because their primary function is to raise revenue with tickets is just rediculous.

 

carlie

in your corner,

you may be mistaken on this issue. Police were notified Sunday night by her parents that she was missing. there were no leads, since she just "vanished". an A.T.L. (attempt to locate) was broadcasted to police that evening. An active, although limited by darkness, search was started that evening.

at daylight monday morning, Sarasota police had blood hounds out in the last known area, looking for Carlie. that's when the dogs lead them to the car wash....

in contacting the owner, they reviewed the survalience tape, and that's when the Amber Alert was sent out........Monday afternoon.

try not to "Monday morning Quaterback" this already tragic event.
it's never QUICK ENOUGH for people when a child is missing, but this was a swift and deliberate act.

Unless an officer, or another party witnessed it, Carlie would still not have been found, until enough evidence presented itsself.........

Use your energy to bash the bastard that did this, not the people that tried to help.

 

So of course the the best way to handle the "what ifs" and "could bes" is to wait in all cases and just expect the occasional case in which the child is murdered during the waiting period - kind of the "cost of doing business"?
Probably makes sense until it's your kid missing. I would bet my life on the fact that if the missing child was a relative of the police chief, the 24 hour wait would go right out the window.

Illustration:
In another thread recently I posted a story concerning a bomb threat at my daughter's school. The school was evacuated eventually, but they waited until an hour before the time it was supposed to go off before moving any kids. No parents were notified, but of course the police and FD were.
While no other parents were given the choice of removing their child from the building, there was a steady stream of family members and friends of police and firemen picking up their own children.
Now, if they were so sure they were doing the right thing handling the evacuation as they did, why were those people picking up their kids? I think the answer is obvious.

Again, what would be so terrible about wasting a little of the police department's time to err on the side of caution?
Remember, these are the same people who promote laws to fine you if you don't use a seatbelt. There's an issue where they could mind their own business and waste no police time at all protecting you from your own judgement. Instead, we get Click it or Ticket! And contrary to what was claimed when those laws were passed, people are now being stopped and fined both during traffic stops and at safety roadblocks.

 

news

not all cases allow you, or give you the necessary evidence to do ANYTHING immediately. this may have been one of them.
that child, more than likely, was killed with 30-60 minutes of her abduction. even her parents weren't aware of being missing in that short time. she was abducted and assaulted/murdered, all within 3 miles of her abduction point. that indicates, in most cases, a very short "contact time" with a victim, by their assailant.

perhaps you don't understand.... when a parent calls the police and reports their child missing, an officer has to go to the house, interview the parents, ask pertinant questions to lead them in an intellegent direction to find the child. do you think the police just start walking around, aimlessly yelling the kid's name, hoping the child would hear them? they need information before they can react to anything..... if course, if it's your child that's missing, you want them back RIGHT THEN. i would wonder if you didn't....

the case with your children's school, i agree, is lame. but, has anyone done anything to make sure that doesn't happen again?

sounds like the issue is with the school officials, not the police..
if the school gets a bomb threat, than they are the first line and responsible party to protect the children. sounds like they did jack.......

i'm discussing the Carlie case here, not the school issue....

traffic laws have to be enforced, as do all the "petty" laws, weather you agree with them or not. true, there are officers that take the easy crap all the time and avoid the real work, but that's any where, USA. you have that attitude at Burger King, all the way to the biggest police departments in the world. Human nature........

your anger and frustration are more than valid, but the police are not to blame here, my friend.......... Blame Mr. Smith and the shitty system that lets dirtballs like that back on the street. just check out his arrest record.......... this guy is a certified piece of shit.

 

Re: news

I don't have a problem with the realities of searching for a child. I realise that it isn't as simple as just going out to find them. What bothers me is the attitude that the more benign possible reasons for the child being missing must be ruled out before taking more extensive measures to locate the child. Most parents would have a good sense of when to be overly concerned. When a child shows up missing and that fact is totally out of character with the child and there are no circumstances which would lead the parent to believe they were merely occupied legitimately elsewhere, there is no need to wait some standard length of time to put a full effort into finding the child. According to news reports, the parents were aware she was missing within a very short time of the abduction, possibly within minutes since the father was in the area looking for her.

(From an A.P. report: Carlie was walking home from a friend's house about 6:20 p.m. Sunday when she cut behind Evie's Car Wash, which was closed. Tape from the business's surveillance camera shows a white male in his late 20s or early 30s approach her. She did not appear to know him.
The man, who was wearing a mechanic's shirt with a name patch on one breast, spoke to her for a few seconds, then grabbed her by the arm and lead her away. Her parents say they don't recognize the man. Her stepfather, Steven Kansler, had driven to the area to give her a ride after a friend's mother had called to say she had seen Carlie walking home.When he didn't find her, he called the sheriff's office about 6:30 p.m.)

It may not have been possible to save this particular child under this particular set of circumstances and I don't think anyone other than her killer is responsible for her death. However, I still think a standard waiting period to weed out possible runaways or misunderstandings is a huge mistake.

Regarding the school incident, the whole thing was handled very badly. Here is the story. The little girl in the story is my daughter. We were lied to by many people concerning the facts of this incident, including people we considered friends. When push came to shove, they closed ranks and covered up, and even sent home information with the students which contained outright lies.
We went to the paper with the story because it was the only way we could be heard and get any semblance of the truth out to other parents. As a result, school officials are no longer in charge of any such events which may occur and the procedures for handling future events have been drastically changed. I don't believe in just accepting the status quo when that means public officials doing the wrong thing.

I've known enough cops and had enough dealings with them that I know it is easy for them to develop a bad attitude towards people they serve. When you deal with a lot of jerks, it's easy to just start assuming anyone you deal with is a jerk. When you deal with people who are overreacting or expecting the impossible, it's easy to treat everyone as if they are overreacting or expecting the impossible.
However, those attitudes are not acceptable. Just because a large percentage of kids reported missing turn out to be the result of some benign circumstance does not make it acceptable to have a policy that all benign circumstances must be ruled out before any serious action will be taken. That was my original point in posting.

 

there is no way to ring all the bells when a child is "missing". it's just too daunting a task. how many kids across america wind up "missing" everyday?

no way.

blame the sick asshole, not the cops.

 

children

well Mike,

i certainly can understand you anger, after reading the story about the school bomb scare incident. i can also see how this story about Carlie, in Sarasota Florida, would touch home, to someone, like yourself, with a young daughter.

in reality, if Carlie was abducted at 620pm and her father reported her missing at 630pm, TEN MINUTES LATE-TOTAL, there isn't a police department in this country that would have treated her as a "missing child" at that given moment and time. she was ten minutes late coming home........ten.

your comment about "knowing enough cops, and having dealings with them...." is a generalization. you're right. dealing with idiots, day in, and day out, does have a tendency to make you lose faith in humanity, and make you "tough skinned" to the general population of the public. it's humanly impossible to be caring, and gulable enough to believe that everyone that's filing a complaint is telling the truth, sincere or is expressing the "right" side of the story. a high percentage of every day police complaints are jaded, in hopes of using police to solve a problem in their favor, to avoid prosecution/fines or to avoid arrest all together. deal with that for 10 years and let me know how you do mike....

but let me school you on this:
i've been a law enforcement officer for 15 years, now in my 16th. I don't know 1 (one) officer, (and i think the number i know and have dealt with, is far greater than you will ever achieve) that has EVER turned his back on a child in need, in danger, in possible danger or a legitimate or claimed abduction. NONE.
You or the general public will never know the feeling of "failure" that an officer feels when a dead child is found, after being reported missing or the constant second guessing of: 'Well, what if i looked there first?"

EVER.

i know guys that worked past their shifts, for FREE, in hopes of finding a lost kid........

your concerns and fears are valid, but again, look at all the facts and blame the right people. as parents, WE are the best defense against things like this happening. what we teach our kids, how we raise them and perhaps only the mercy of god, may be the difference of our kids being a victim, or not.

it's unrealistic to expect law enforcement to "saddle up" at every parent's claim of an abducted child. that's why certain time lines are given. in this case, it would have failed, regardless. i'm not claiming, by far, that it's perfect, or fool proof. god knows it's not.

if you can think of another way, then by all means, contact your legeslators and state representatives and have your laws changed, or suggest other ideas. you seem to be willing to fight for what you believe in and that's good. use it to help others.

nobody's gonna watch, care or love your kids better than you, mike. that's just the harsh reality of it......... and people don't take the assignment to those, who do watch our kids, seriously until AFTER something bad has happened. that's a shame.......
if we lived in a PROACTIVE society brother, life would be a little safer for all of us, but government has always been REACTIVE, and i don't see it changing soon.

as for your school incident: i agree. we call it:
"Cluster-fuck Cake with Damage Control Icing."

I see it all the time. again, i agree, don't ever take the lame bullshit that people try to shove down your throat, when they know that they screwed up. had your school admitted to, "jesus!! we didn't realize she was missing, but when we did, we immediately sent people to look for her!!" that would have been a completely different story. an outright lie regarding her location and reason for loss is not only a childish lie, but degrading and insulting to the family (yours) that knows the truth.

tell your kids ya love em, and kiss them good night every night and pray to god they grow old and have kids of their own......

 

Excellent post gentlemen!


Fwiw, I saw the live briefing on TV this morning when the sheriff confimed the finding of the Carlie's body. You could see and feel the outrage, anger and sadness in the eyes and words of all who were present. I would personally hate to do that job for a living.

RIP Carlie.


600inline4,

One of my brothers is a NYPD homicide detective. I could have sworn that was him typing your replies.

Stay safe out there on the job.

 

Great response 600. At our agency we get a lot of "missing" children. These take top priority no matter how many times the kid has "run away". The initial officer upon responding takes a state of MD missing persons report, even if the kid is a chronic runaway and we have been there 10 times in the past. We try to exhaust all leads that the reportee can give us (i.e friends they may be with, phone numbers, employment, hospitals, arrested by another agency ect.) After the intial report, the officer goes from the location to the precinct and the "missing" person is entered into NCIC immediately. NCIC is a national database that stores basically everything. Stolen cars, guns, missing persons. If any officer comes across the missing person and runs a check for wanted on them any where in the nation, they will come back as missing. A general broadcast is sent to all allied agency to Be On Look Out for the "missing" person. After that a follow up must be done within at least 72hrs and so forth. Luckily, the person is usually located within less than 8hrs. The problem we run into is 99.9999% of the reported "missing" persons are delinquent juveniles who are rebeling against their parents, staying out late, sneaking out and mom wakes up and finds daughter/son missing. I have been on the job for 7 years and in my county I have heard of 1 missing female that was actually found murdered in a neighboring county.

 

Re: children

Don't get me wrong, I don't feel that anyone except the monster that killed that girl is responsible for her death. There was no doubt seeing the cops at the press briefings that they were all feeling terrible. I wouldn't want to have to deal with a murdered child never mind wonder if I could have prevented it. When I was 12, myself and a couple friends found the body of a murdered 5 year old, it was a terrible experience. Thirtyseven years later I can still picture it very clearly.

On a more delicate subject, the one thing I have stressed the most to my wife and kids is that if they find themselves in the situation that poor little girl was shown in on the tape, their utmost priority is to not let themselves be quietly removed from a public place. Even if the person has a weapon and threatens to use it, I've told them they should make as much noise as possible and fight in any way they can. Better to take the chance of being seriously injured in a public place than to let yourself be removed from it to where there will be no one to help at all.

That said, I realise it is impossible to safeguard them from everything. You don't really know what fear and worry are until you are a parent.

Stay safe. Thanks for the discussion.

 

final note

mike,
regarding your comment about being a parent: if you check my profile, you'll see i'm standing on the threshold of that journey.

we already know it's a little girl as well...... seeing this story about Carile, over the last week, has broken my heart.

my wife is waaaaaay more positive about society than i am, but in reality, you couldn't get a needle up my ass with a jackhammer, when i think about raising a daughter in our uncertain future.........

i thank YOU for the discussion, as well. take care.

Dave

 

Children are an expendable commodity. Media fodder.

Society is ill-concerned with prevention. They only complain about having to mop up the mess afterwards. If you can't bring yourself to blame the perpetrator, blame yourself for your selfishness and indifference. That's right, it's not the cops or the judges fault.

Since I have started my campaign, I have received little feedback and no support. We can bring a Kiwi over to race but we can't bear to do anything to advocate prevention of child abuse.

The shame of it all