Interesting Slate article on British nuclear strategy. I call it “failed safe” The so-called “Last Resort Letter” contains the PMs posthumous commands about whether to retaliate, which will only be read in the event that 10 Downing is vapourized in a nuke strike. If DC and the entire military command structure gets taken out, how do US sub commanders know whether to launch armageddon?
Taking out DC wouldn't be that difficult but I don't think taking out the entire command complex is even a considered scenario. It would boggle the mind of most to realize all of the fail safe systems/protocols that are in place and the redundancy of communications. But basically what would happen is things would work their way down the chain of command and the likelyhood of taking out all government leaders(ie, Pres, V-Pres, Speaker, Pres Pro Tem, etc then also taking out Chairman of the Joints,etc.) and all of the 4-star line officers is just so not realistic it wouldn't be an issue to worry about. The issue would be the ability to maintain communications with the submarines to give the order. When I was in(technology is way more advanced now) there were three main communications facilities that were all fairly high classification(I knew the regions they were but not the actual locations) and very well fortified according to what I was told. Those were the main units. There were other ways to provide backups. NORAD played a big roll in all of this from my understanding. Not even sure if thay place is still operational. With todays satellite comms capabilities it would be even more difficult to take comms away from the ICBMs and command. I doubt that the Brits have a letter as described above and I highly doubt we would have anything like that. If things have gone to shit to the point the subs have no comms then it pretty much means the men on those subs are all you have left and to launch would give away their locations. They would need to stay alive until they get further information. The other issue is, what/who are the targets? Who the hell are you going to hit? You would be making assumptions as to where to fire. Not a good plan. You could end up bombing the only remaining cities of someone that wasn't actually an aggressor. Interesting questions though.
Ok, thanks. I am reassured/alarmed by that, since my only knowledge on the subject is from watching Dr. Strangelove, Crimson Tide, Hunt for Red October etc. The letter could state something far less dramatic, ie. what actions to take until the chain of command is reestablished.
I would imagine that there are instructions on what to do until the proper chain of command is re-established. Not likely in a letter. More likely in the Captain's training and the rest of the officers. There are a lot of procedures for operating a ship and not just the nuclear plant. The nuclear plant procedures if place in a stack was like almost 15ft thick. So the rest of the boat has their fair share. I think the rest of the boat was covered in a 2 page brochure. BTW, the scenario in Crimson Tide was complete bullshit. That isn't the way it happens, at least not the way it was ever portrayed to us. When you get the order to launch it's an immediate thing. You aren't given 90 minutes to think about it. The decision is already made. Like Denzel's part, the XO, said, "if they don't see our missiles leaving the water another boat will be given the order". Basically we would get the order to set condition 2SQ then things would escalate and you would "Set condition 1SQ... spin up all missiles" which is basically get them ready to fly(gyros going, etc). Both ordered by flash messages as portrayed in the movie. When you hit 1SQ typically within minutes you get the order to lauch a certain number of missiles and the targets would be set and the birds gone. I'm not sure how the targeting thing worked. I assume that there were default targets already in the missiles and those could be changed as needed but I may be wrong. It may be something that was part of the "spin up all missiles or it may have happened right before launch. I'm just not sure. Probably was above my clearance level at the time(secret). The likely events that would happen in a Crimson Tide type of political event would be when the Russian rebels started their shit, DC would order a couple of Tridents to set 1SQ and spin up all missiles. Then when the Russian rebels started fuelling the order to fire missiles would have been sent out to the Alabama(in the movie) then Command would expect to see missiles in the air within about 10 minutes or less. If they didn't see them launch then the other 1SQ boat would receive the same orders. And so on. Another stupid part of that movie was the crew of the Alabama jumping on a bus and hurrying to the ship to get underway. SSBNs don't typically hang out in port. When they are operational they are at sea. You don't rush a crew to sea because some fucking Russian is starting shit. There are multiple SSBNs out there all the time. Then there was the part where the fat ass Lieutenant told the E-4 to drop and get 25 pushups. If one of the Lietenants had said some shit like that to one of us he would have been horselaughed first then had a miserable 3 months at sea with daily practical jokes. And jerkoff COs like Gene Hackman played don't usually get to that levels unless they are very highly connected. Sub COs are usually, in my experience, pretty damn personable guys. XOs are sometimes asses but that more of their job and they usually end up being cool COs.
In case anyone is wondering. The safe is not attached to the Control Room floor. That would be very ergonomically sucky. It is actually attached to the bulkhead(aka wall).
You're welcome. It was an interesting life for sure. I actually talked to one of my old shipmates last week that I hadn't talke to since I left the boat 20+ years ago. Damn, we laughed our asses off for 2 hours telling stories. Funny the shit you remember when talking to one of the guys from back in the day. :up: I miss that freaking crew. It was the single best group of guys I've ever been around. Everyone got along well. Not a bunch of nukes against everyone else or officers against enlisted like on many boats.
I am just guessing but I wouldn't put it past the Brits to have some fairly banal message in a letter from the PM. Remember their tabloids are hyper-sensationalist, and this is a place where lawyers wear frocks and wigs. That movie still had its good points! I thought it was one of Hackman's better roles. I am also guessing the most realistic Hollywood sub CO was probably in the most unrealistic sub film: Scott Glenn in the Hunt for Red October. He went on a US sub (I think the same one used in filming) for a few days and the CO told the crew to treat Glenn as if he were the CO. Glenn decided rather than figure out and create a character he would just copy how the real CO acted.
Crimson Tide was still a good movie. They were much more accurate with things such as communications between crew and with uniforms, etc. The fire in the galley brought back memories of drills on the boat and then there was the actual fire in the galley we had. That was done with great accuracy. :up: There was a lot of silly shit in both movies. One of the things that cracked me up in Hunt for Red October was when the Capt told the XO to get the Chief of the Boat and have him bring his side arm and the XO just looked all mean and snapped his fingers. I LMAO at that one. The COB would have said, "what the fuck does that mean XO?" Then in Crimson Tide, saluting the CO when walking down the passageway. The Navy doesn't wear hats "indoors" and hence we don't salute indoors. There are special exceptions but we won't get into those... they aren't happy times. Just retarded Hollywood shit. You could be right about the Brits and you are absolutely right about Glenn and I've heard the same thing about him being on a boat with the crew like that. I'm not sure if he was on the Dallas or not. He was not on the Houston that did the emergency blow as far as I know. He played the part very well. Very typical of the submarine Commanders I was around. The boat was actually the USS Houston and not the Dallas as portrayed in the movie. I was an instructor at prototype with one of the nukes that was on there when they did the emergency blow for the cameras. What people don't realize is when you do a full emergency blow like that you actually fall back into the water and immediately sink to a few hundred feet(400+ with some boats) deep basically out of control because it uncovers the forward ballast tank vents. In an actual emergency such as flooding(the time when you normally do an emergency blow) you need to control your angle of ascent so you don't bring the nose that high. I think he told me it took a couple of days to charge the emergency blow air reservoirs back up... that's a lot of air. :wow:
Great. Terrific. "all the way to the bottom... IF we don't stop 'em" Sounds like a real good time. Another reason why the Navy wasn't for me.
I'll admit to anything to avoid the bottom of the ocean-where you can find BRITISH submarines miles deep ...that's too scary for me! Next you'll tell me that CANADIAN subs are miles deep...frightening...
