Keystone pipeline will be dangerous...

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by crashman, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. crashman

    crashman Getting slower every day

  2. beac83

    beac83 10

    Yep, those crude trains run right at the back of my property (about 200' from the house) all the time. I'm much more comfortable with the coal trains, as they won't explode on derailment.
     
  3. Dave K

    Dave K DaveK ├╝ber alles!

    The pipeline will be built.
     
  4. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member

    When this whole Keystone thing started, and before production began in the oil sands, there were not very many refineries that could process this kind of heavy crude. Since then there are several refineries in the Mid-Eastern states, along the great lakes, that are updating so a lot of the Canadian production will not even be coming to the Texas coast. BP, Marathon oil, Conoco/Phillips and a couple of pipeline builders are estimated to be spending in the range of 15 Billion bucks by 2015 for these upgrades.

    On the negative side is the fact that air pollution, in the form of additional lead, mercury, Benzine, Carbon Dioxide and others will be increased by about 20% with the refining of this heavy, sulfur laden stuff.
     
  5. Britt

    Britt MotoBigots Suck

    I understand it is in "Addition to natural occurrences", but there is NOTHING we do, that won't fk something up... A volcano erupting does about the same thing, only on a larger and more uncontrollable scale.
     
  6. beac83

    beac83 10

    The Whiting, Indiana BP refinery is now processing tar sands crude. And the resulting petcoke is being stashed in open piles next to residential neighborhoods on Chicago's SE side. It's stored there because Illinois doesn't require it to be tarped or enclosed, while Indiana does have those requirements. Lots of complaints from residents about negative health effects from the blowing petcoke dust.
     
  7. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member

    Yeah, Whiting is one of the largest refineries in the US. (seventh largest I think) and is already refining tar sand bituminous. I think they are also in the process of updating so that their production can increase significantly to about 450,000 b/d. They claim that pollution will go down after these updates.

    (They say) :up: :)
     
  8. Rhino48

    Rhino48 Well-Known Member

    This is 20 miles west of me, and big news here of course. It's -17F at the moment, complicating the fire fighting process. The cloud is hovering about 50 feet off the ground. The school by my house is putting up the displaced. As you can imagine, this is big news around here. Wind shifts and Robbie Jensen's dyno building will be in danger.. ha, not really.

    but, on the up side, we're flat, oil will cool off and not flow, and there's no river nearby, so spill containment should be easy, as long as the fire is out by flood season.
     
  9. TXFZ1

    TXFZ1 Well-Known Member

  10. turbodogs02

    turbodogs02 Just batting at the bunny


    Not really an issue of the trains not being safe....could've been a number of factors......

    You wouldn't believe what gets transported by rail :cool:
     
  11. beac83

    beac83 10

    They run the nuclear waste trains on another line about 3 miles west of here. And I do have some knowledge of what the DOT placards mean, so I'm not too surprised at what rolls through my back yard. I've lived near freight tracks most of my life. :beer:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UN_numbers <-- List of UN Numbers (that are on the placards) and what they mean.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  12. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member


    I was reading an article concerning the pipeline that moves the oil from Canada and it explained how the process works. The oil sand is heated to about 160 degrees (F) then it's mixed with natural gas concentrate to make it liquid enough to flow. It's then piped at that temp at pressures up to about 1400 psi. One of the problems with piping crude oil at the higher pressures is that when there's a leak it acts the same as when there's an air pocket within the oil flow. If they think it's an air pocket then the pressure is increased to close the air pocket which, in turn, pumps more oil out of the leak. One of the oil leaks that occurred a couple of years ago resulted in them pumping out a leak for something like 17 hours before they finally shut it down. That roughly 600,000 gallons of oil went into one of the local rivers. Big fuckup.

    Another concern with the Canadian tar sands is that it contains a high amount of corrosives in the form of acids and sand particles which renders the pipeline subject to premature leaking. It's a messy business at best.
     
  13. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member


    Beac, it sounds like you might be one of those persons that lives on the wrong side of the tracks. :)
     
  14. beac83

    beac83 10

    The South Side of Chicago has a higher density of rail lines than most anyplace on earth. All the lines built to the south and east from Chicago go through here, along with at least 3 of the major lines headed west. There are still nearly 2000 grade level rail crossings on the South Side, and that's after a number of lines have been abandoned since 1980 (and doesn't even count the viaducts under the tracks that are everywhere).

    The old Union Stockyards were the driving force for many of these lines. The line behind my place was put in in 1852 by the Baltimore & Ohio railroad as a link from the yard (Barr Yard) to the southeast (where trains from the East terminated), the stockyards, and yards that linked to western routes. within 1 mile are other lines built by the Rock Island and the Grand Trunk & Western Railway. There are 8 different lines plus several abandoned lines within 4 miles of me. All these lines are over 100 years old, and still very active. I see an average of between 40-60 trains a day behind the house (depends on how well the economy is doing), and the other lines near here have similar traffic.

    Not sure there is a "right" side of the tracks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
  15. auminer

    auminer Renaissance Redneck

    Was I the only one that couldn't help but hum that song as I read this post? :D
     
  16. turbodogs02

    turbodogs02 Just batting at the bunny


    Yep, Chicago is a crazy place for sure.....first time I went out there for training, I couldn't believe it. I know I wouldn't want to be working anywhere near there!

    :beer: Beac for being aware of what's cruising through your backyard....most people don't/wouldn't care. :cool:
     
  17. TXFZ1

    TXFZ1 Well-Known Member

    Yup, it's nasty stuff. There are surface wells located in valleys which flow with H2S and if these wells leak, the people in the valley die. In south Texas, wells have dead vultures around the Xmas trees as a minute amount has escaped, remember there is no such thing as perfect 100% seal.

    We deal with pressures up to 30,000 psi and temperatures at 300 deg F in a 5" bore with all the acids, sand, wax, bromides, etc. It is nasty stuff to make your houses warm and your cars to go.

    The Arkansas pipeline leak was due to weld design (hook cracks at the root that were not found by NDE.)

    David
     
  18. pickled egg

    pickled egg American Dogthic

    No. But then again, my brain does stoopid things.

    Kidlet asked for some "medicine" just as I changed the station to PBS, where "Dinosaur Train" was on.

    For the past hour I've had The Cult's "Medicine Train" in my head. :confused:
     
  19. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member

    I guess, from the sound of it, if you're not "on" the tracks then maybe you'll be ok. :)
     

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