I need a new handgun...lets talk guns today. :D

Building an AR is pretty easy. Buy a few tools and watch some tutorials on patreon. No need to pay someone else to do it. Just do your homework and be very thorough. Can't go wrong with Daniel Defense if you want to buy turnkey. Bravo Company USA also makes excellent ready to go uppers and completes. I think you are definitely on the right track with a 300blk suppressed SBR setup.

 

you can also buy pre built PSA uppers and lowers . just slap them together

 

https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/epc/9mm-40-sw/lower-receivers

Building my second EPC9
Aero makes nice components. This one is getting a Faxin BCG and a 10 inch barrel. It’s about $1000ish to build one plus your red dot.

For home defense this will be my first choice every time if a bad guy tries to gain access to my home uninvited.

 

Exactly why I suggested it.....I'll have the 9mm pistol in the bedside safe with flash light and laser sight on it. That has 17+1.

The AR9 will be ready to go in the safe, 33+1 plus 2-3 other 33 round magazines.....That'll stop any attacks I may ever have.

 

Please tell me I'm not the only one who glanced at that and saw "flesh light"...

 

Paging @Gorilla George.

 

Depending on where on the night stand I grab.....oooohhhh

 

And if I can just add, shooting a suppressed, subsonic, 300black at the range is near giddy inducing fun! Shooting at 100y with just a red dot and the sound of that 220 grain bullet going THUMP on the backstop is awesome. The bullet hitting 100y away is louder than the gun. Of course, if you don't reload then those subs can get quite expensive.

 

If you can swing it, can’t go wrong with DD. But there are lots of other great brands out there as well. Don’t skimp on the upper or the buffer assembly. If you need to save some coin, do it with the lower and stock. I’d suggest buying a top notch complete upper assembly and matching buffer spring and weight. Or if the same company doesn’t sell an individual buffer spring and weight, buy a different high quality brand that matches the suggested specs for that upper. Then slap that stuff on a budget built aero precision lower assembly.

 

Get something in fn 5.7 in case the bad guys (whomever they may be) are wearing body armor. 5.7 goes thru some serious plate like a Mingo thru pie.

For cans best bet is get a good 22cal can (5.56/ 22lr/5.7 compatible in one can) 9mm and a 30cal can. That cover about any ammo you should reasonably need to shoot.

Why no scatter gats for home defense? Nothing says FU like coated buckshot (nickel or copper your choice) from a 3” shell.

 

for those that are running subsonic rounds thru a suppressor for hunting or home defense and you hand load your stuff, check out Maker Bullets. They machine the stuff just north of Atlanta. They sell their bullets to quite a few well known brands out there, and are being used extensively for hunting and LEO use. Everything from 22 to 12 gauge slugs.

Website is pretty basic but the bullets are anything but..

https://makerbullets.com/index.php

 

Never used a shotgun, so I'm a bit intimidated by recoil and likely drywall destruction. John Lovell/Warrior Poet has a video where he rates a generic pistol, rifle and shotgun for home defense, and concludes the rifle wins, followed by shotgun and pistol. Video seems to make sense, so I've excluded shotguns from my research.
I bought my 9mm pistol without considering HD alternatives. Now I'm trying to optimize my setup with a single additional weapon. (Its gonna be hard enough calming my wife with one additional gun, two is a recipe for disaster.)

 

TL/DR – get a 9mm sub gun – I personally recommend the Stribog (A1 or A3).

Caveat – the following is one person’s opinion - feel free to question it and come to your own conclusions.

I'm going to go contrary on the subsonic .300 black out -it is an expensive round for what you’re getting if you don’t reload (ballistically, it’s basically a .45acp so what you really have is a neutered rifle round that in order to be quiet travels at the same speed and has the energy of a heavy pistol round) – Supersonic, I’m an AK guy for 30 cals (essentially, they wanted to turn the 223/556 into a 30 cal (AK) and ¾ of a century of data points says you can fuck up lots of people with steel case ammo and the loose tolerances of a 7.62x39 (especially at 20 feet) – and up until recently, spend a lot less money (ammo) practicing how to. Finally - take apart an AK and AR for cleaning and see which one causes you to swear out loud. . .and then remember - cleaning an AK is mostly optional.

Here's a video on .300 black out - look at the chart and look at the differences in energy between the supers and subs - he even says for his personal HD, he uses supers. You don't have to follow it, but personally, I'm like him, if I'm doing a rifle caliber, I want the benefits of that rifle caliber, and if it's similar to a pistol caliber - I'm just going to a pistol caliber. YMMV



Short barrel 223 – have no problems recommending the Bren2 (got the 11 inch) and even though its new, I fucking love it. Pulled the OEM flash hider for a Lantac ASR brake and it does not move no matter how fast I run it, is light weight, good balance, decent trigger and very compact. . .Concussion and unburnt powder – different story – and not suited for home defense without a suppressor unless (as others have said) you want to flash bang yourself - but the gas system alone is worth it to me and HBI already ported it for the third gas setting for suppressors (60.00). No tuning or buffer springs to mess with suppressed or not. To flash banging yourself - here's a screen shot of me testing it out when I got it. . . that. . .at night. . .indoors. . .not good.




Part of the reason, I like, use and recommend Subs/PCCs for HD is that I hunt with a .300 win mag (which has a lot more energy than anything above) and personal experience has taught me that the only way you’re dropping something instantly every time is with a head or spine shot – and honestly, it doesn’t matter if it’s a rifle caliber or pistol caliber hitting the head or spine (especially at home distances). You want to drop people – practice head and spine shots (which, if cost is an issue, you can practice a whole lot more with 9mm). I was in Africa two months ago hunting - double lung heart shot with a .300 win mag on a golden wildebeest (pieces of lung and heart were coming out of the exit wound)- it ran for over 100 yards; double lung shot a wart hog (.300 win mag) ran for 75 yards (when we found it, air bubbles from it's lungs were coming out of the exit wound) - head shot on another wart hog (.300 win mag) - it lived for about 4 mins and tried to run for those whole four minutes - but it was on its side because it dropped instantly. Same with the gemsbuck - high double lung shot that hit it's spine - dropped instantly - stuck a knife in the back of its head - lived for about two more minutes). There are no guarantees (I've shot two wart hogs in the head and both lived for a couple minutes) but I have yet to see something not drop with a head or spine shot. Seen plenty cover ground with catastrophic heart and lung shots.

Sub guns/PCC’s are stupid fun (which makes you shoot them more) cost less to shoot until you start rapid fire multiple targets (so you get more rounds to practice with) and are so easy, I have multiple experiences of putting them in the hands of novice or below avg shooters who are not novices, and they’re on target with the first shot, and have so much confidence that they naturally run them faster and faster with each mag – which is what you want in a home defense gun – something you’re confident in that you can run fast on target without putting in years of work (and thousands of dollars of ammo) to get there (which is why I recommend them to everybody who asks – and use them myself). Added bonus - every woman I put one in the hands of, not only loved it but is dead on with the first shot and was usually stacking them (which I'm guessing is a reason they loved it - same for guys). Finally, most ranges wont let you run rifle calibers on their pistol ranges (which is where you mostly get CQ target practice) so that should also be a consideration (where you can actually practice with them at the distances you need to practice shooting and having them sighted in for).

11inch Bren2; 5 in Stribog A3s and 8in Stribog A1 – they get harder to maneuver and hold up over time as you go from the bottom to the top. . .even though they all weight roughly the same – especially if you don’t have the time or ammo count to practice with it.



Just the Bren with a mini bog. . .



This is my brother's home office. . .



His Stribog is not pictured because it's in his bedroom; so far 4 people have bought them after shooting mine (and between them, they have a decent amount and variety of guns) - and the most recent one was bought today by the guy I go hunting with in Africa for his son as an Army school graduation gift. They're like the Caniks of sub guns - cheap (relatively) and way fucking accurate.

Good luck with your choice!

 

Last week, my brother and I got together with a friend and were shooting clays with these. . .



I got the M1 super 90 as a wedding gift for my brother over 15 years ago. . .and that M4 is ridiculous. . .

 

I do have to agree with kas in the 300bo costs. I've mentioned and several have mentioned that if you don't reload, it's damn expensive. IF you reload then you can probably shoot subs for around 20 cents a round if you know what bullets to buy.

The argument for any caliber over any other can go on forever. The first place to start is easily what you've already asked. What's the main purpose?

I'll then add to go ahead and accept that you'll be at 5 or more guns in a year or two. You've gotta get your wife shooting some though.

 

It's also interesting to me how 2 different people can both read the same set of facts and come to entirely different conclusions about what they imply lol. Can't argue with anything you said above, yet I sit in a completely different boat. My thoughts are yes, sub .300 is roughly the equivalent of a .45. And as you stated, with appropriate shot placement, that's sufficient. Plus added benefits of not blowing out the eardrums of my family members and reduced concern about OP. But I also like the added versatility of spicier, lighter loads as an option for other uses and training with those rounds brings cost way down, though it admittedly is still not cheap compared to pistol calibers. I'll concede that. With the PCC, I'm stuck with pistol caliber performance in package that's likely a similar size (no improvement to mobility) and with minimal improvement to recoil management. I feel like this is another place I could quote Clint Smith but pretty sure I've already done that 2 or 3 times in this thread and it's probably tiresome by now lol.

Agreed on the M4. I picked one up about a year ago. Prior to that I had a Beretta 1301. I don't know how people even compare the 2 (seems the 1301 is what most people consider to be the M4's best competition). The 1301 is a perfectly fine gun. But next to the M4, it's not even close. I sold the 1301 within a week of buying the M4. That gun may the most glorious piece of engineering to ever grace the gun world, especially in the shotgun realm. It's definitely the most impressed I've ever been with a gun after shooting it the first time. Next most impressive were probably CZ and HK pistols for me.

 

Don't be intimidated by shotguns. Yes, they can recoil hard but it's not going to knock you over. There are 12 year old girls using them in competitions. But I do agree they are not ideal for home defense.

 

Solution: buy several complete uppers and lowers. then you only have one gun when they're put together...otherwise just a few "extra parts"

 

The recoil isnt bad, especially with a low powder home defense round. As for going thru walls...they make frangible buckshot, but you can also use #2 or #4 buck for a little energy per BB and less chance of unintentionally injury.

I like 12ga since it delivers a lot of energy and even a less than center mass hit will really make someone reconsider what they are doing. An off center hit (arm leg etc) with 9mm, 5.56 etc may not have that effect.

And for something completely different...this made me chuckle. New multicam for Portland, Seattle, et al...

 

Holy fuck