How to tell when a chain is shot?

Ok, here is my conversation with a guy from EK. I used to use Maxim Chain wax that he recommends. I may go back to it, not sure, but enjoy the info and reading. Oh and I reversed the order of the emails, so you can read from the top - down

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I race a stock SV650. At the beginning of the season last year
I did a 520 conversion using new sprockets and an EK 520MVX X-ring chain. As
you know in racing, tires get changed often, so I am always adjusting the
chain. I keep the recommend amount of slack and also wipe down and clean my
chain with WD-40. Last weekend after changing tires and having my chain
adjusted as usual, I did 3 races and at the end of the day, my chain was
really really loose. I could push it over against the tire easily. It felt
so loose I could probably lift it up and sideways and spin the rear wheel and
the chain would come off. I did not actually try it, but that is how loose it
felt. I checked my marks for chain adjustment and nothing slipped and both
sprockets are in good shape. Could this chain have just died? I read your
FAQ on how to check see if a chain needs replaced, but I think that is meant
for amatures. How can I really tell if my chain is toast? Can I measure the
length of it, or any other way?

Thanks
Alan


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Wildhirt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 12:20 AM
To: sv129
Subject: Re: Mail from www.ekchain.com

I'm not sure if anyone else at EK has already answered your question, so
pardon me if this is a redundant answer. If you're regularly using WD-40
as a chain cleaner, chances are that you've reduced your chain's wear
life. According to the WD-40 website
(http://www.wd-40.com/Brands/wd40_faqs.html),
the product is both a penetrant and a degreaser. With repeated use, it's
very likely that the WD-40 has penetrated past the Quadra-X Ring seals
and caused the factory-installed grease to deteriorate. Over time, this
would lead to drying out of the seals and failure of rollers and/or
bushings. Such a failure could lead to a sudden increase in chain slack.
WD-40 may improve the cosmetic appearance of the chain, but it is a poor
choice as a chain cleaner. You should replace your chain immediately,
and don't let WD-40 anywhere near the new one.


On 8/16/04 8:44 AM, "sv129" wrote:

Thanks for getting back to me, no one had answered me yet. I red the
WD-40 link you gave me and although it states it cleans/degreases and
penetrates to loosen up stuck parts, it also states that it is safe on
metal, rubber and it acts as a light lubricant, protects and is
corrosion-resistant. If these 0-ring and X-ring chains are sealed, then
I would not think it would hurt them. Chain life is a pretty big topic
on some of the motorcycle forums I am on and there are guys that swear
by using WD-40 and get anywhere from 10K, 15K even 20K miles on their
chains. Granted I know this can vary from bike to bike and how hard or
easy it is ridden etc.

I have heard one way to test a chain is to remove the master link and
lay it out flat on the ground and use some kind of straight edge next to
it. Then pull the center out on the chain to bow it and if it is around
5" or more that the chain is no good. Have you heard of this test and
if so is it a good one? If that is not a good test, there has to be
some way for a end user to tell if his chain is shot or not. Is there a
certain length each link should be or say a 110 link chain should be XX"
long in good condition?

If you don't recommend using WD-40 on your chains, then what do you
recommend? WD-40 has their 3-IN-ONE product line, would any of those be
better to use? Most of the chain lubricants found in dealerships fling
really bad and don't stick well to the chain. Chain Wax is probably the
best of those type of products I have ever used, but still is not great.
Also these types of products hold all kinds of crap on your chain from
the road like dirt, sand and just general road grime. So at some point
you need to clean all that off which means a degreaser needs to be used.

Thanks
Alan


From: Dan Wildhirt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wed 8/18/2004 12:55 AM
To: sv129
Subject: Re: Mail from www.ekchain.com


Alan,

First of all, the O-rings on a sealed chain only seal the grease that's
contained between the chain pins and bushings. There's no reliable way of
sealing the lubrication in the gap between the chain's rollers and bushings,
which is why you should lube your chain every 300-400 miles. WD-40 could
easily penetrate into this space and possibly contaminate the grease. Again,
WD-40 is a very poor choice as a chain lube, because its primary function is
as a cleaner and water dispersant (hence the "WD" in the name). Quite
possibly the reason that WD-40 doesn't fling is that it evaporates without
adhering to the chain at all.

As for the experiences of those on motorcycle forums, I would sooner trust
the expertise of engineers who have decades of experience designing chains
and specifying appropriate lubricants to ensure their durability.

I use Maxima Chain Wax spray on my own bike and have not had any problems,
other than the cosmetic issues you mention. 3-In-One is a very lightweight
oil that would probably do next-to-nothing as a chain lube. We recommend
only lubes that are specifically formulated for use on motorcycle chains and
which clearly indicate they are safe for O-ring chains.

It's a fact of life that chains will get dirty. Any lube that adheres to
metal well enough to perform its intended function is also going to adhere
to dirt and grime that you encounter in everyday riding. That's why periodic
chain cleaning is essential to maximizing chain life. The only cleaning
agent that we can recommend with confidence is kerosene. As petroleum-based
solvents go, it's relatively mild and is safe for O-ring chains. Still, the
chain should be blown dry with compressed air before applying fresh lube.
Kerosene also has a low volatility, so it's much safer to use than gasoline,
acetone or similar products. (It is a carcinogen, though; take appropriate
precautions.)

I've never heard of the chain test you mention, but it doesn't seem to be of
much value. I've checked a brand-new chain with this method, and it bowed
more than five inches over its entire length. The methods for measuring
chain wear given on the FAQ page of ekchain.com will quickly tell you
whether a chain needs replacement. However, if you want to quantify chain
stretch, you can measure it with a vernier caliper. Much as I hate to send
you to a competitor's website, this page spells out how to do it:
http://tsubakimoto.com/products/chain/install/rs_chain_check_points.html#Mea
suring_Chain_Elongation

The "standard length" mentioned on the Tsubaki page is calculated by
multiplying the chain pitch (5/8" for a 520 or 530 chain) by the number of
links you measure.

Hope this helps.
--
Dan Wildhirt
EK Chain

 

Man, I read that and thought wtf?
It's been a while since I've actually measured one.
My bad, I pulled out a new 520EK Gold
120 links, it bows exactly 10 inches.
I threw out the last chain I replaced, so I can't compare new to old.
Good info, cool that they replied with that link.
Sorry about the bad #s

 

I'm using the "throw it up under your bike while going through turn 4 at VIR" method. It seems the one last weekend was bad. I hope to heal up in time to find a better method for testing.

 

I always wanted to take a chain like the one mentioned, lube it up good and then do a dyno test. Replace the chain with a new one and do another dyno test. It would be interesting to see how much HP a worn chain sucks up.

Hey !!!! Huffdaddy. Hears you a new project.

 

Already done it. Many times.
The difference in the before and after dyno runs depend on just how bad the old chain is and HP.
One of the most telling dyno experiments is on a good chain.
Before and after dyno runs with the only change being chain lube can be good for 2-3hp.

 

Maybe the best thing to lube the chain with would be the grease that is inside the chain. Maybe the EK engineers could figure out why that is a bad idea. I still think 20k out of a stock chain on a zx9r using only wd40 is pretty good.

 

I clean my chain every 600 miles (give or take) and lube it. I spray a section with wd-40 then wipe it off. I start at the master link and end at the master link. Then I use PJ1 (black/gold can) to lube it. I start at the master link and spray from the inside of the chain. I spin the wheel slowly (relatively speaking) with my hand to do one complete run of the chain. Then I spin in a few times by hand for good measure. I've got almost 26000 miles on this chain now and I've adjusted it two, maybe three times. I could probably take it past 30000 miles but I'll replace it soon anyways since I'm a good ways past what most people get. Sprockets look unworn.

Every time I hear a chain engineer say "You can trust someone who doesn't know what they are talking about or you can trust me, super engineer with a zillion hours of research" it makes me laugh. I'll go by my own experience as to whether or not wd40 is bad.

 

This is the method I use to determine if a chain should be replaced. On the rear sprocket on preoperly adjusted chain there should be negligible amount you can pull the chain rearward from the sprocket. If you can pull more than 1/4 inch it is shot or sprocket is shot. I tell sprockt wear by looking for the edge of the tooth to start becoming right triangle sharped as opposed to equilateral triangle shaped.

On chain lube I use the Suzuki chain lube and grease when the chain is still hot (within 2-3 minutes of race or practice session)and allow to cool for 30 minimum then wipewith shop rag to remove excess. By doing while hot the grease is more liquid and gets into the groves and recesses of the chain better.

 

http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts/prsm.dll?eventframe?event=03HV00330A&start=32&ts=1093451413

Here's how I teste my last one.

When I got it back from the other side of the track, I deemed it bad and in need of replacement