HOLY CRAP!!! You ok Lee??

No, I don't know what you mean.

You say the guard should pull his head out of his ass and exercise judgement in one case and not another. That is a gigantic load of horse shit, plain and simple. If he's supposedly got enough active brain cells to determine that he should leave his station if a child is on fire, he should also have enough active brain cells to know that the guys putting on the show are the whole reason he has a freakin' job and should be allowed back in the paddock.

The guy is paid to provide security for an AMA National Motorcycle Roadracing weekend. One of the competitors crashed and was sent down the access road to get back to the paddock so his machine could be repaired and he could get back to the business of providing entertainment for the paying customers.

No where did I mention the burns Lee suffered because shit for brains didn't let him in the paddock. That's merely injury on top of the original insult.

But maybe you're right. Lee should have parked it and then found a cell phone to call his crew so they could negotiate his entrance to the paddock. And then shit for brains should have been fired for being an idiot and interfering with the show. Or for lacking enough active brain cells to know what the hell is going on.

 

Lets just clear something up so if it happens to you , you will know what to do. If you crash at Mid-O, if the bike is not leaking & runs & the corner worker will let you, ride it back to the pits on track.

If not, you wait for the crash truck, case closed. Thats what your do if your Nicky, or Lee or Joe Nobody clubracer. Thats the way its done, don't like it, then don't crash, don't run out of gas or break down...

People in leathers, Team looking outfits, trying to get into paddocks where they didn't pay to get into. That never happens

Have you met the track owners? Well I have. She most likely gave the guy a pat on the back. Like I said, he was doing what he was told to do. He didn't crash anything, its not his fault no matter how you or JU wants to twist it around.

 

And the cornerworker determined that the safer course of action, rather than ride a just-crashed bike around a live racetrack, was to send that person out of the fence and into the paddock on the access road. In my opinion, that's a good call. Off the track is ALWAYS better than on the track if you're not riding 100% or your machine is questionable. And given the number of blind corners at Mid-O, that cornerworker was 100% correct. This is practice at an AMA National; everyone there is hauling ass, all the time.

And come on, someone is going to ride a RACE BIKE, with full number plates and no street gear to speak of, to the track just to sneak into the paddock? Come on, Bob, you know that's ludicrous. Like you'd be able to make it to Mid-Ohio without getting arrested by the plethora of law enforcement on the way to the track. Or are we supposed to believe that someone would trailer a racebike to the track area, secretly unload the bike and suit up, and then try to sneak in the gate? And on top of that, they're going to throw their shiny, pristinely painted race bike in the dirt (so it will have that freshly-crashed look to it) just to make the story convincing. I'll do $1000+ of damage to my race bike to save the $30 gate fee. Again, Puhlease.

We're not talking about "someone in leathers" or a "team-looking outfit" here, were talking about someone who only a complete, utter and total moron could mistake for anyone other than a competitor in the event in question.

As for meeting the owners, no I haven't. Don't care to. But how that is relevant escapes me at the moment. If they think hiring folks who have no ability to think whatsoever is a good thing, then they're not the kind of folks I want to get to know. I prefer people who value some semblance of intelligence myself.

I personally have a low tolerance for stupidity, or for blindly following policy and not exercising the slightest amount of intelligence and judgement which normal human beings are capable of. And that's all that this situation called for: the slightest amount of judgement on the clown's part. His job was to keep out the folks that don't belong inside. Lee belonged inside. He kept him out. Therefore, he didn't do his job properly.

And if it happens to me and the cornerworker sends me through the fence to get back to the paddock, you can bet that I will do exactly that. I'll take the access road over limping around a live track any day. I've been hit from behind before and it ain't fun. The Scott Russell Daytona Experience isn't all it's cracked up to be.

 

"As for meeting the owners, no I haven't. Don't care to. But how that is relevant escapes me at the moment. If they think hiring folks who have no ability to think whatsoever is a good thing, then they're not the kind of folks I want to get to know. "

If you had met the owners, you would see right away how it becomes relevant....

They/she would make most of the guards look like pussycats, you have no idea.

As for riding back to the pits on the track, your correct, hence my statment on if the corner worker lets you.

So whats that leave you? well besides not crashing...

WAIT FOR THE CRASH TRUCK....

Still not getting it?

WAIT FOR THE CRASH TRUCK...

Still not getting it?

WAIT FOR THE CRASH TRUCK...


As for the rest of your babble, you couldn't carry Brad's boots

 

Mike, you can make your argument without being such an ass. Your beef is with the security guard; not me.

The guard did use judgement. Just because his judgement does not concur with yours, that does not mean he did not use judgement. (Good, bad, or indifferent.) The fact of the matter is, he was given instructions not to let people through that gate. That was his job. My point is that his employer's are not paying him to second guess them. If they had wanted racers to enter that paddock at that gate, they would have left instructions for him to allow them to do so. Let's face it; these guys are task-oriented grunts. You can't fault the guard for following his instructions. There are reasons they leave instructions for these guards to do certain things. It is NOT the guard's job to sit there and say 'Hmm.....even though I was told not to let anyone come through this gate, I think it would be ok to let this guy through."

If anything, find fault with the track management for not properly training their staff or giving them appropriate instructions.

 

So these guards aren't humans, they're merely "task-oriented grunts?" They're only capable of following the rudimentary instructions they got before they left the track office for the day? Well, in that case, maybe we can get them to hire human beings for security instead next time. The instructions must have been "No pass, no enter" and nothing more. No mention of the fact that it's an AMA Motorcycle Roadracing weekend, or anything of the sort.

You say he exercised judgement. But you also say he simply blindly followed the instruction set given to him beforehand. Well, it's one or the other. If you're correct, he simply blindly followed the instructions without even the slightest evaluation of the circumstances in front of him. I don't see much judgement there.

How does this man dress himself in the morning? Do they make Garanimals for adults now? I'll be honest, I don't know anyone that stupid. Any security folks I've talked to seemed to be of at least reasonable intelligence. Forrest Gump has never been represented in my experience. So why do you claim them to be incapable of reasonable human thought?

Or maybe, just maybe, he's some cop-wannabe who's on a power trip now that he's The Man at Mid-O. A power trip apparently fully endorsed by the management at Mid-Ohio. That's lovely. If that's the case, it's nice to see the management treat it's paying customers so well.

And the bottom line is that crap like this could effect the outcome of races. A guy crashes in morning practice and the team does a miracle rebuild to get him on the grid in time. Ten minutes can be the difference between being on the grid and missing the race. The outcome of the race shouldn't be decided by some idiot at the security gate.

 

Everyone, unless you were there or have more information then what was in the article shut the 'ell up.
I'm tired of this mindless speculation.

Right now it seems like y'all are argueing to argue. Go find the cure for cancer or something.

The guard could of been a MENSA member that was given strict orders to not let anyone even Foggy himself pass through the gate. You don't know.

It could of been a pedestrian only gate with a turnstile that Lee was felt comfortable with lifting his bike over?

Maybe it was a handicapped only gate?

Maybe there had been a report of terrorists trying to sneak in and blow up a sporting event by posing as racers and this security guard was acting on orders of the Homeland Defence Minister.

Maybe this guard was just a fill in while the real guard was off on a pee pee break?

Who the hell knows? None of us that's for damned sure. Let this thread die a peacefull death until Laurie posts please.

 

Ok. First I expect to catch hell for this. The source of the problem was the corner worker. If he allowed someone to leave the track by any means other than pit in he should have notified control that a racer would be coming in from an access road. Were there standing order for the corner worker to allow/not allow people to exit at that point? What is the protocol if it is allowed? If security wasn't informed that a racer was coming in through that gate they would not allow them through. I have worked event security at concerts before. You are told this is what a valid pass looks like - DON'T let anyone through without one. Even being easy on someone trying to get in without a pass would be to radio central control for them to acknowlege that the person has a valid reason not to have a pass. Using common sense is grounds for posobly not being used for security in the future. Sorry, just the way it works.

Jeremy

 

The title to the article is a joke right? It is the guard's fault he got burned? No it isn't. Sure, he might could have let him straight thru, but someone could have let him know a racer was on the way.
Why didnt he just shut off the bike and then get the team's attention? He could've rode to the other gate, would that have taken too long?
I understand wanting to get right back so you can return to practice, but the security guard is there for a reason.
I'll agree that a little more common sense on the guard's part would have prevented the bike from overheating, but so would have some on Lee's part for sitting there and letting it.
Like I said, a little more common sense would have prevented all of this, but don't blame the guard for the burns.

 

Well I have first hand experience on the same situation. In Feb at Daytona FUSA weekend. I ran off into the grass in turn 1. There were minor damage to my lowers, but I didn't want to ride around the entire track to go to pit in, and can't go counter race to go through pit out, the corner worker at turn1 instructed me to go past pit out and turn 2, and enter paddock through a small access gate.

I was stopped by the security guard at the gate. I told him that I was instructed by the corner worker to do so, and showed him that I have a tech sticker, he let me through.

I think that the job for that guard is to stop anyone from entering the racing surface.

I do think that guards use their own judgements. When a crash truck or an ambulance try to enter the gates on to the track, does the security guard check their credentials? How about opening the back to see if anyone is hiding back there? Somethings are obvious, like a competitor who just came off the track covered in mud/grass.

I don't know of the situation to comment on Lee's incident. But security guards have radios don't they? can't they call and verify.

And to Lizard 84:

If the guard would not let Lee and his bike through, why would he let Lee through? If Lee had his credentials, then this wouldn't be a problem. If he didn't, then how could have he got into the paddock for an AMA official? Go to the main gate and buy a pass? I wouldn't carry my wallet onto the track either.

What the story on RRW lacks is some more information:

how did Lee eventually get back to the paddock?
How long was he delayed at the gate?

Maybe Lee rode slowly toward the gate and the bike overheated before he got there?

Everything, from the article to everyone here, is still speculating.

 

Jeremy, I won't give you hell, but I will charge you with extreme oversimplification. I will first guess that you have never been to Mid-Ohio, since you might have known that the cornerworkers don't have radios, they use a land-line. Therefore they can't talk to anyone but control, not with the AMA, and not with security. And even if the AMA knew, there is nothing they can do but walk over to the gate and try to get the rider in. Secondly, the cornerworkers won't be told not to send someone through the gate UNTIL something happens like what happened to Lee. In fact, it's rare that the cornerworkers get any standing orders at all, especially related to security.

This is a problem with track management. Period. Or have you forgotten the famous Kevin Schwantz arrest? So don't blame the cornerworkers. Fault the guard for at least not being creative enough to find a way to help an obvious racer who didn't have his credentials with him. Track management at Mid-Ohio has always given black-and-white instructions to the guards, who famously follow them to the letter. One of rules they like to have there is limiting which gate bikes can enter through. Most gates are pedestrian traffic only.

Since no one has asked this question yet, does Laurie have any more information? It's nice to see everyone jumping in to assume the finer details!

 

And I hope Lee is OK. Second-degree burns and chafing leathers don't mix. Heal up quick!

 

For having been on this BBS for as long as you have, I would think that you'd know better than to post things like that! That's just asking for trouble/flaming/etc.


As for my $.02 worth of response....

If you don't want to read it....well....uh.....then don't!

 

I'm not saying he would have let Lee through.

What I'm saying is.
1. Its not the guards fault the bike overheated & burned anybody
2.Wait for the crash truck
3.JU's style of honest John'ism strikes again ( You got a great roadracing Rag, quit writing headlines that make you sound like a tabloid hack)
4. Wait for the crash truck

 

If the crash truck is to come, they would have to stop on-track activities. (same as my case at Daytona). So the corner worker ELECTED to tell me go through the access road.

I guess Lee could have waited until the end of the session. But I think he would not have gone to the gate without being told so by the corner worker(s)

I agree that Lee should have been mindful enough to not let his bike overheat.

JU's headline is presumtous and probably shouldn't have been from a journalistic accuracy point of view.

BUT, there was still a break down of communication that hindered a participant's access and probably unecessarily delayed his effort to practice or qualify. And that should be looked at, addressed and they should try to prevent it from happening again.

Which means a press release, or announcement at riders' meeting would have been nice. Also instruct the corner workers or the security proceedures so no one goes through it again.

 

Everyone, I'm Tommy's wife Karla, Tommy's with Lee & Laurie on their way back from Ohio.

For all of you concerned, Lee is driving the motorhome back here to N.C. So thats a pretty good sign and for any of you that know Lee you wouldn't expect anything otherwise.

I'm sure he's in discomfort, the main thing is to make sure there's no infection.

I don't know anything about the incident itself other than he was burned.

Thanks!

 

I second that

 

Thanks to those showing concern.

I just have a few things to say. It's hard to talk about woulda coulda shoulda when the only thing I'm concerned about is Lee's entire left inner thigh is severely burned and now infected.

When you are trying to play catch up on track time to win a championship you don't wait on a crash truck.

There is a safe way to put the cap on your Suzuki so this will not also happen to you. I will get a more detailed mechanical explanation and share it here.

I can't say much for the "security" at Mid-Ohio. Our QUAD WAS STOLEN.

Mid-Ohio's medical staff was great. I'm thankful they have a Dr. on site during the event.

 

thank you for the update laurie!!! let lee know that the entire wera family is on his side on this one....

 

I kinda take exception to this dude's concept of "tabloids." Like tabloids are straight from the sewer or something.

Have to first state that I own a "tabloid." But for those clued in to modern journalism, tabloids are just about the most dynamic, cutting edge thing going on in print journalism these days. And I'm not talking about the ones you see at the supermarket with the Martians landing in Kansas to have sex with Latoya Jackson either.

Since Murdoch bought the New York Post, it has become a big thorn in the side of the New York Times itself. Not having to be pompous and politically correct, the Post has broken many big stories on the Times and of course their spot photos and sports cannot be matched by the Times.

Maybe the headlines are a little racy and the style may not be stuffy and uppercrust like what is used by the big broadsheets to try to overwhelm the masses with "culture." But the fact is that in most urban areas and spreading out to places like rural VA, the "tabloids" have uncovered some of the biggest and certainly most colorful stories...even though they don't have near the resources as the big old dinosaurs. This guy says that tabloids are trying trying to stir sh%# and sell papers. Well, how naive is that? Is he saying the the New York Times and CBS News are not doing the same?!

Hey, anybody who has ever spoken to Lee Acree knows that he is about as nice a fella as you're going to find anywhere. I admittedly may be a little biased towards my home track of VIR, but that incident NEVER would have happened here. Sure, security might run down Mongo on his pit bike behind the treeline of Turn One, but only until they caught up and saw who it was.

The first time I covered a motorcycle race at VIR -- first one ever, that is -- Bob Compton, the Chief of Security, took his business card out and quickly wrote the names and corresponding numbers down of the top AMA riders, so I wouldn't make a fool of myself going up to Nicky and calling him Eric. From what I hear, the Mid-Ohio security wouldn't even dream of doing such a thing and they probably wouldn't know who the riders are anyway.

I don't think many people out of the publishing business can truly appreciate the effort that goes into putting out those huge issues of Roadracing World and keeping the website going, especially with -- compared to any newspaper or magazine, the skeleton staff they have. Look at the number of WORDS in there. Whenever I feel bogged down and behind, I just glance at RRW and get rejuvenated and thankful I don't have to put that monster out. Let anyone try to put a magazine like that out and not have a slip here or there. I see typos in the Wall Street Journal...does that make them a "tabloid?" Every sport or activity that is not in the mainstream can only hope and pray they have the equivalent of a RRW.

Maybe, just maybe RRW is on to something. Maybe the old style of black and white, angry Joe Friday security officers are a thing of the past. Maybe VIR has got the right idea. Well-informed, trained, polite, and experienced security guards who understand that they are no longer working a beat on Saturday night in the wrong side of town, but instead, for a business that should treat its customers with understanding and respect.

Most of VIR security guys are retired police officers, too. But they are the cream of the retired law enforcement officers in the region, many of whom are ex-special investigators. They know how to handle situations, all have radio contact with each other, and know who is who in all the sanctioned events they cover. Instead of complaining about RRW's presentation of what happened to Lee, I think the criticism should go to Mid-Ohio and their obviously out-dated and under-trained system of security from the top down.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to reading my Wall Street Journal. But only because I have already finished from cover to cover my copy of RRW.