Hey Mongo...

Unfortunately as written and "ruled" on by Sean, we'd effectively be limited to 65.5mm at 0.060" over. And I still don't see where stroke is limited, chapter 9 clearly states no restriction other than displacement. But we don't have a displacement limit the way it's written, just a bore limit. We seem to have a group assuming you have to use a bone stock RZ motor, and a group reading the rules literally, and we don't agree. It is a formula class, seems the formula is not so clear?

 

Well i'm about bored and stroked out for the night...a closing thought if i may:

Bob, with all sincere respect to you as a fierce competitor, skillful fabricator, and a friend, just tell me where in the rulebook you find the language in the rules- and it might be there, maybe I didn't read with due care- that supports your belief. The supporting language must be there, otherwise, what we wind up with is a personal interpretation. and that's okay, but others can interpret differently.

 

Again, I agree the rules can be difficult to understand, the issue of displacement is very clear to me.

Unless there is a stated class limit or a specific displacement limit/allowance stated for an individual bike, each listed bike is limited to its stock displacement + legal overbore.

Wow, if you have no concerns with the legality of your bikes (assuming you are referring to your H series) it makes your choice of phrasing a direct accusation.

 

Charles,

You tell me where in the absence of specific permission in the rules a racer is allowed to increase the displacement of a motor?

Your argument is the absence of a prohibition is actually permission? If you read the engine section of the rules and apply the specific rules as stated the the result is what I have stated.

I believe bikes are limited to their original displacement or a specified class limit or a stated displacement if specifically listed for its inclusion in a class under the rules as currently stated

Sean can resolve this clearly by adding the following sentence to the engine section of the rules:

"Unless there is a stated class limit or a specific displacement limit/allowance stated for an individual bike, each listed bike is limited to its stock displacement + legal overbore."

 

Bob, c'mon now, I wrote I was ready to leave this for tonght, but you know I can't resist temptation!

Nope, nyah nyah, I asked you first! You tell me where it says, as the rules pertain to Formula 2-Stroke, that you can not.

Fair is fair, you said twice that you had 'belief' in certain things pertaining to displacement, as one thing. Now, just tell me WHERE in the rules you find the language that supports your beliefs?

Allow me to add this, as a kind of contrapposto: when the U.S. Circuit Courts of Appeal are split on various application of the same law, the cases may wind up in the U.S. Supreme Court to have the issues settled. That means some very experienced and highly intelligent people can not agree on a uniform application of the same thing, either from construction of the law (as it was written) or from application (of the law itself). But I can assure you that no case gets to the Supreme Court due to anyone's 'beliefs.' There has to be some factual basis.

That's what i'm asking you for here. i'm not calling you out or saying you're wrong. I'm just asking for that factual basis based on what is written in the rulebook right now, not in some statement that has not been written yet as you suggest.

 

My understanding of the rules is based on explanations from Sean years ago, I agree that the rules confuse some people. I have suggested a single sentence be added to the engine section of the rules, it will eliminate any ongoing confusion.

 

Form 2 stroke is a performance indexed class...so its not class limited, but bike limited. Each bike has its displ limit via overbore as mentioned in the class limit part in ch9.

Sean confirmed this in an email to me 4 or 5 years ago, which is why i bumped(V6lw) this year when i built another big motor.

Would be a good idea add what Bob said to the rulebook...good Bob that is.

More than 364 cc's would be preferable. Aftermarket cyls seem fine also.

 

So then, there were no sections or phrases in the rulebook pertaining to Formula 2-Stroke to support your beliefs. Words in the air can be fleeting, subject to erosion of understanding over the years and certainly subject to personal interpretation and bias. Obviously, the 'explanations' never found their way into the rulebook, where all could read them.

 

Interesting read fellas....in an effort to learn the application of the rules in general, I have a question.

Does this sentence:

Internal engine components may be modified, altered or changed as per Chapter 9.

Anywhere or anyhow lead to this statement, in Chapter 9, for you guys?

If it does not mention you CAN do it, you CAN NOT.

WE diesel 350 twinners dont mess with stroke, so just trying to see the light here.....

I may burn in hell.

thanx.

 

Now now Charlie, everyone knows there is no place in hell for CB350s...too much noise and too many oil leaks for those folks down there...

 

You know......after reading all these loop-holes in cheating....I going to get a two-stroke guy to do my taxes...

 

"Hello conductor. I'd like 2 first class, one way tickets to Hell please....for me and my friend here....yea, I know, dont let that bother you too much, he cant help it...." ...."and put them on Charles' tab please, thank you sir."....TOOOOOTT! ALL ABOARD.

 

I may have missed it somewhere, but you at least believe it to be 421.

So what do you think the limit is for the rz and listed bikes?

 

No I don't believe anything; I can only go by what I read...a constructive purpose of this thread would be (in an ideal world) to come to a decision somehow about this issue as it pertains to Formula 2-Stroke.

Yes, for sure, some limit should be stated. As for me, i'll roll with any decision reached by WERA, if indeed any decision needs to be reached.

 

The molehill has become a mountain...yet i see no mountain....

 

Are Honda 350's allowed in Formula 2 Stroke?

 

What is important is invisible to the eye.

 

Of course, as long as the valves and tappets are removed.

 

Its a clusterfuck sir