Hate our system? Is it actually better if Clinton wins?

I've been thinking about this a little. If you're fed up with the system, is it actually good that Trump wins? He's one man, albeit one who'd be in a powerful position. He's a man with zero experience who would most likely be stonewalled and shut down by Congress and would become a lame duck a year into his term. He could make noise and have a bully pulpit, how likely is he to accomplish much? Would any illegals actually get deported? I doubt it.

What if Hillary wins? Then it'd be proof positive that the system is rigged and impervious to change. Social anger would grow until there was an actual wholesale (and potentially violent) movement to upend the entire system. If she's impeached, which given her crimes and behavior is more probable than not, it could break the entire political system. The end result could easily be armed civil conflict, or it could be a peaceful renewal of the body politic. Who knows?


The short of it is this: Is it better to let the pot boil longer and then then explode by electing Hildabeast, or relieve the pressure by taking off the lid and electing the false savior of The Orange One? Seems to me if we want wholesale change electing one man isn't going to do much of anything. It might be better if he's defeated and spends the next couple years riling up the masses. Maybe he's more useful as a candidate and demagogue than as an elected official.

What sayeth the beeb?

 

I've actually sorta thought about this....

My conclusion is nothing will happen if Hillary wins unless she dramatically turns up the burner (gun control, single payer health care etc etc) asking as its incremental steps nothing will change.

Those that agree with her positions will never turn on her no matter what may come to light about her , and let's face it a large portion who disagree with her are too busy trying to live life and support themselves and their family to spend massive amounts of time doing anything unless she does something dramatic.

 

If Clinton wins we accelerate the revolution. It's that simple. If Trump wins, we just delay it.

 

If Clinton wins and the Trump starts calling foul on the election results as he has threaten to do and rouses up his minions like the irresponsible dick he seems to be, then it could get ugly, locally here & there....


Otherwise fuck all happens until the election system really runs out of money. How much will this election cost the candidates again?....

 

He could make things really bad. If he were to go to DC to lead a rally or protest could you imagine the sheer number of people and how bad that could turn really fast. I could almost guarantee people would be marching on the white house lawn if that was to occur.

 

Yeah, I've thought about this too.

If the beast wins, I believe that many bad things will result from her reign. Essentially, we will become less free in many ways, and that's what conservative people value more than others. But less free is the general direction of the country.

I believe that Trump can actually do some good if he wins, but like you said, he's one man in a sea of swamp monsters. Remember that Trump is a result of swamp things like Boehner and company. He will have to battle them all unless he joins the D.C. Country Club. I wonder whether he or anyone can do anything about the spending.

I think that the country will one day collapse under its own weight. Worldwide, that's going to be a violent time.

If Trump loses and there is widespread protest and unrest, I don't think that it would necessarily be a bad thing. The depth of the corruption that has been put on display in the last year should make everyone ashamed of what this government has become.

 

Without a doubt

 

This entirely depends on whether he wants to actually become a politician for the long haul or if this was solely an ego exercise. He'll threaten and cajole for sure if he loses. If Hillary offers him a juicy enough bribe to not stir shit he might take it. Not sure what he'd want, though. He doesn't seem to need money (but would a guy who doesn't need money bother with the Trump U scam?). I can't see him wanting to be quiet. If he actually feels aggrieved and feels he doesn't have anything to lose he's definitely a "burn this motherfucker to the ground" type. He's also rational though. If the bribe is something he wants he'll take it for sure. Can't see Hillary trusting him to STFU enough to give him anything worthwhile though.

Trump is also a reaction to Obama, just as Obama was a response to Bush. I think Trump's candidacy could create something much more effective and probably dangerous than himself: Someone with his manipulative skills, media savvy and showmanship who's a serious person. Think Ted Cruz with charm.

We'll become less free with Hillary for sure. Given the social and technical trends though, I don't see how state power can increase in the long term. If it does increase momentarily, it won't stabilize at that level. I think what we'll see in Hillary's Presidency is an incredible struggle between government and the new paradigm enabled by technology and non-state actors. I do think we're approaching an inflection point wherein our socio-technical progress will completely outstrip the ability of the state to control or regulate it. Just blockchain technology alone when mature will obviate the need for a huge percentage of state functions.

I do believe America is collapsing under its own weight. It's the inevitable fate of every society, of course it will happen to us. As man lives and dies, so do nations. Just as America was a product of Enlightenment thinking, what will come next? The best case scenario is that we don't have civil conflict at all, but that technology eventually makes the state mostly irrelevant and the Federal Government occupies some position similar to the Holy Roman Empire. I think a Hillary Presidency will just vastly expand the sclerotic nature of the system, and probably hasten its demise. The state will likely resist this by lashing out and attempting to use its brute force power to regain control, but the momentum of history and economics will always win.

 

Trump apparently thinks it's be great either way...

 

Probably as much as people spend on beer for 2 or 3 days.

 

My thoughts:

Hillary wins, what's left of the Republicans tries their damndest to get her under control. They'll find a way to impeach her if they can.

Trump wins, what are the chances a nut bag goes off the deep end and does something stupid?

Where I'm going with this is, my vote is as much about Tim Kaine and Mike Pence as it is about the other two knuckleheads.

I really wish Gary Johnson had kept his facts straight and gotten more air time. My boss lives in New Mexico and says he was a great governor and a successful business man, but he's changed and apparently not layed off the weed long enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

If she wins it will be 24 of 32 years controlled by two families, Clinton and Bush. Enough is enough.

 

You are one smart individual.

 

It really is about the VPs. I don't think either will serve out one term, and not just due to the threat of someone taking them out. I think Hillary is in far worse shape than anyone lets on, she will pass within a couple years.
Trump will get bored with it and won't leave his business. Not to mention his new media side he wants so desperately. I think he will step down. But either way, he wins.
Hillary gets elected and Trump TV goes nuts before November is over. It will be a crazed circus, but will probably spell the end of CNN.
Trump wins, he steps down and same story with his media business within a month of it happening.
As to how we will be impacted, Hillary knowing she has a short time frame stuffs the SCOTUS with people as extreme as she is, goes for gun confiscation and causes mass chaos. It will be problematic. Trump TV will stir up all kinds of crap which will help the confiscation cause.
Trump wins, it is a circus for a year or so until Pence takes over. Then it quiets down and delays the aforementioned revolution.

 

There is no reason to think that Trump would step down.
Wouldn't happen.

 

I'm counting on Trump winning the popular vote and Hillary willing the electoral. That will get the party started right away.

 

Most of us haven't seen it in our lifetime, but there's probably not much like a VP becoming President to snap the whole country back to reality. We've spun so far off track with this shit...

 

Well, Actually I've seen it plenty, starting with Truman (Though I don't remember), Johnson, Ford and the whole Al Haig f*ck up.....I guess you could also include Bush(1) and Nixon as they were both VP's first.....

 

Bush doesn't count. He was elected. I'm talking about Truman, Johnson, Ford... Sutherland.

And I didn't realize you were that old - Truman?

 

We already did that in 2000. Didn't start much of a party.