Going to War

I'm very torn today. My faith tells me that preemptive war is an error. 2000 years of Christian theology teaches us that only defensive war, like our response to 9/11, is permissable as servents of Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace. Every major Christian group in the world including the Roman Catholic Church, The United Methodist Church, and the National Council of Churches USA representing many Christian bodies nationwide and worldwide have and continue to appeal for peace and avoid armed conflict. We are called liberals and cowards for our stance. To the contrary, I consider us brave to stand up for what God has been trying to teach us to do for generations, become peacemakers. (Matthew chapter 5).

Yet my son is in the U S Army Reserves and has been called to duty, God only knows where. His wife and three year old daughter do not even know where he has been assigned.

So while I'll continue to oppose the war. I'll support my son and his comrades, and pray for the day when humanity can grow up enough to put our sticks and stone aside and quit hitting each other. I hope all will join me in prayer for a quick end to this conflict. If the war continues, we'll have a special prayer at the Chapel Service at the WERA National at Jennings. We'll pray for peace, for those in the conflict and for anything else you would like to pray for.

Grace and Peace

Rev. Tim Burleson, Chaplain to the WERA National Series

 

Tim,

My heart breaks for you, and I will pray for your son. Although I disagree, I think of you as neither liberal nor coward. I just want this whole deal over ASAP. Whatever the outcome, God is still in control. Peace be with you.

 

"...pray for the day when humanity can grow up enough to put our sticks and stone aside and quit hitting each other."

Very well said. I hope that whatever occurs is over with quickly and that as few of God's children are harmed as possible. I hope and pray that you see your son very soon.

 

My thoughts and prayers do indeed go out to all the servicemen and women who are now in harms way. May our merciful and loving Lord keep them safe and bring them home to us.

I do not believe this action is as preemptive as you would say, we are threatened and have been attacked in our homes and at our places of work. If you play well in the sandbox with others, God ordained nations and governments are there to assist you. If you cause problems, they are ordained to punish you. Our President is a God appointed, God fearing man who needs our support and prayers at this time. Please remember him as you remember our sons and daughters...

 

Tim, what is your sons name?

 

Chaplain-
I support all the troops and unfortunately it does not look like a peaceful ending is in sight. I hope everything works out.

What do you think can be done to stop the killing that occurs in Iraq? There are all sorts of independent documentation of the Iraq leadership murdering & torturing people, changing natural habitats which adversly effect the people that live off the land.

You mention many of the churches and the beliefs on war. What are your feelings of the various churches history of conducting 'holy wars' and killing people solely based on religion or ethinic make up?

not trying to stir the pot, just looking for good discussion and opinions.

 

I don't understand how so many people do not support what the President is doing. I spent 6 years on active duty in the Marines and served proudly. There is no way that I want my service to this Country to be nullified by some cheeseball in another country supporting terrorist and producing weapons to be used on us and our allies. To everyone against this war, what do you think should be done??? nothing??? You think we should just leave Saddam alone and let him plot against us? Our government, contrary to popular belief, knows ALOT more about his actions and capabilities than any of these protesters. Trust me, if we left him alone, 911 would be nothing compared to what the future would hold. The only problem I have with what we are doing is that it took this long.

Sorry if I offend anyone, but I had to get that out.

 

What does "God appointed" mean? Is that just another way to say "born again" or does it mean that God appointed him to be president, or something else?

 

Thanks for all the replies. Laurie, my son's name is Gabriel. Thanks for your concern

 

Well, I am for my freedom and for the war. The sleeping giant has been peaceful and diplomatic for way to long. Other nations take our kindness for weakness so people end up dying anyway just as 3000 or so did at the trade center.

There are some situations in life that cannot be resolved through peaceful dialogue. Regardless the amount of deliberation, stating that Saddam really didn’t mean the things that he does and he can be dealt with in a diplomatic manner is insane. This situation cannot be resolved peacefully. (Saddam does not want to change his regime or loose CONTROL) Some people only understand one thing, Violence. Diplomacy has worked so well in the last 12 years with Saddam I think we should give him even more time. That makes me sick to my stomach.

The peace protestors forget that you wouldn't have freedom today if my grandfather and others fathers and grandfathers wouldn't have fought for the country in the past. If you are not willing to defend your freedom and liberties that you have today then maybe you shouldn’t be here. (I am sure that France or Canada would love to have you)

 

Thanks for your reply PPR. Please try to understand where Christian Pacifism comes from. It comes from the command of Christ to be peacemakers. It is not some blind pie in the sky idealistic worldview. It takes into account hard realities including the fact the war is a particularly destructive form of diplomacy. No matter how hard they try not to, combatants hit schools, hospitals, churches, old people and children, not to mention "friendly fire" incidents.

If we take the Bible seriously where it says "With God nothing shall be impossible" then there is a way other than fighting. We just have to be brave enough and smart enough to find it. Admiral Yamamoto, who directed the attack on Pearl Harbor was praised by his staff for his smart attack plan. He was quoted as replying "A smart man would find a way not to fight a war."

I pray for grace and peace for our country and for you and your family.

 

I respect your opinion and hope for the best with your son

I do have a few questions and comments:

Where was the Roman Catholic Church, The United Methodist Church, and the National Council of Churches USA, and their predecessors, prior to and during the Holocaust?

What was the Churches stance during the Crusades?

What was the Churches role in the Spanish Inquisition?

What about the Churches role in opposing the abolition of slavery in the US?

The Churches current role in the IRA?

The Churches role in Stalinist Russia?

I ask these things not to denigrate your views, but to ask legitimate questions of the role of organized religion on either side, support for or opposition to, wars or armed aggression. IMO, religious leaders can and do use religious contexts to support whichever side they agree with at the time.

BTW, Yamamoto's quote was not from some benevolent wish to avoid War, per se, but rather because he felt, correctly so, that attacking the US was a huge strategic mistake.

 

The US troops are very lucky to have the public support that they have. I think it is vital that EVERYONE shows this support throughout the campaign. It is for this reason that I am so angry at people in the UK right now. This is a quote from the UK Daily Mirror there:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12742775&method=full&siteid=50143
One British officer, Lieutenant Colonel Ronnie McCourt, said: "We are ready to go. The last bits of the jigsaw are fitting into place. Obviously, we would prefer to have the unreserved, unqualified support of the British public, but nevertheless, we don't let that detract from what we are doing here. We get on with it.

"There have been times in history when we haven't had the full support of the public but we go and do the job."

Lt Col McCourt also said he had never seen such resolve among US forces. "What I have noticed is that the American service personnel have a strong sense of purpose - a stronger sense of purpose than I have known before.

"They feel they have got a proper mission to accomplish here and they will do it."




Says it all to me - I cannot imagine an american officer having to say the same. I wish the British public could show the same support the American public does - a soldier should not have to fight without it. I feel sorry for the British soldiers, some of whom I personally used to serve alongside who I know are there now. I feel I need to fly home and kick some peoples arses

(rant over, carry on)

 

I am sometimes reminded of the deeply rleigious man caught in a flood.

As the water rose the National Guard came by with a truck but the man refuse to go. "The Lord will provide", the man said.

As the water rose higher, a Sheriff's deputy came by in a jon-boat but the man still would not leave. "The Lord will provide", the man said.

Finally, the water chased him to the very crest of his roof, and as he hung on only by his finger tips, a news chopper saw him and swung down to save him. True to his faith, however, the man said, "The Lord will provide", then was swept away and drowned.

In what seemed a mere moment he found himself before the Lord. To say the man was a little upset would be a real understatement. "Why, Lord, did you forsake me, one of your most faithful followers?"

And the Lord answered, "Forsake you? I sent you the National Guard, a deputy and a helicopter."

 

I agree Chaplin that every avenue should be taken prior to war but sometimes you are left with no choice and the plan must be fulfilled.

Didn't God go to War?

Joshua – Means Military leader in Hebrew but in Greek it means Jesus
- 2 Spies go into Jericho
- Joshua worships an angel in his presents, which is Jesus Christ.
- Battle of Jericho – Didn’t Jesus fight the battle?
“Every law of the torah was violated in Jericho“ The Ark of the Covenant was not supposed to go to war.

The Book of Joshua is a model for Revelations (The books refer to each other)

In Ezekiel Chapter 4 talks about the 440 years of Judgment
The only place in the bible where day is for a year
70 years are accounted for in the Babylon captivity
360 years no one knows and is unexplainable

God said if you don’t obey me the first time that I’m going to apply your punishments by seven.

360 years
x7
2520 years

2520 years is about the time that Israel has been in despair if you are counting from the first siege of Nebuchadnez'zar
This date is being set off from the captivity of the people.

Amos (lesser Profit) predictions,

Amos – Consists of 8 burdens 3 sermons and 5 visions
The basic theme the Northern Kingdom thinks that they are militarily secures, economically prosperous, worshipping idols, and abandons their heritage. (Judgment comes down as Amos Predicted)

When you read the book of Amos be sensitive to parallels to another country that thinks its militarily secure but is in more jeopardy than ever. We worship idols (Material Items) and have abandoned our heritage!

Psalms - says that when God rebuilds Zion he is ready to return.
(In 1998 Israel was the Number 1 growing City in the world)

Didn't the lord state that he would return anytime after the 7th millennium? Didn't the lord also state that we would destroy ourselves the next time?

So in order for the lord’s words to stand true since the beginning of time then we will fulfill his word, Right?

 

Chaplain:
Again, well said.

Have you read the book "Choosing against War: A Christian View: A Love Stronger than Our Fears"? As a pacifist, I enjoyed the book immensely.

It is difficult to be a pacifist layperson in these times. I am unsure why others feel such a need to have me change my views and to tell me that I don't have a right to live here because of them. Is it the power of popular thought? I can't help how I interpret God's message but I feel as though I would be doing myself, and those who have taught me, a disservice if I were to abandon my long-held belief in God's message to me and my belief in the power of the transcendent because of the pressure of my fellow humans. I am willing to accept the consequences of my views and I never asked for anything more.

I sure do hope that your son and all of God's sons and daughters remain well.

 

It is not my intent to start an argument. Everyone has a valid right to their opinions and I respect that. Let's just hope this conflict ends soon and my son and the sons and daughters of all our military personnel come home safely.

Shalom

 

Right on.

 

What the Chaplin said too.

 

I believe that "God appointed" means chosen by God. Like, Tim was chosen to be WERA's chaplain for example.