I'm on the verge of buying a new SV to ride on the road for a year, then convert to racing. However, I really got attracted to the GPs after watching them (well, you guys) closely at VIR this year. Before I make any plunge for the SV, I wonder if you could advise on some questions: • Are GPs really as exciting to race as they seem to be from a spectating view? It seems like they must be a total blast to race. • I'm not a mechanical expert by any means, especially with the fine art of tuning 2-strokes. Would this prohibit me from being even halfway competitive and/or where would I find tuners to help out? • OF COURSE, the Aprilia is one of the coolest machines in the world! So, question: Aprilia or Honda? • What, if any, is the difference in tire bills for an Aprilia or Honda vs. an SV? • What about difference in maintenances expenses in general? • I see some 2 strokes for sale in the 2-3 K range. Are these in good enough shape to race? Or would they require extra expense to get race ready. • How do they hold up in crashes? (This is of pertinent concern since I'm gonna be a newbie? • I'm 5'7" and weigh 175. Is this too much weight for a 125? • This will be a large category: What am I too dumb to ask about GPs? Thanks in advance.
Hey Bruce, I will take a stab at this... - GP bikes are more fun than they look. I personally will never ride anything but a 125. - You do not have to be Mr. wizard but you will need to know the basics of the bikes. The advantage is that they are designed to be worked on and are thought out very well. You can pull the head, change jetting, change gearing between practice sessions no problem. Tuners... Hell I will tune it for you. You will find the 125 and 250 riders are the tightest bunch around. Help is there for the asking.. -If the Aprilia is the cup bike that you are refering to it is not a GP bike. It is a half way in between. I only talk now about GP bikes. You have the Honda RS and the Yamaha TZ in 125 and 250 sizes. - Maintenance... My program is a middle of the road deal and I spend $3.75 to $4.25 per mile. A season is about 9-1200 miles. - 2-3K for even a 125 is cheap. You can get a nice Pre 95 Honda for that price but they can be difficult to get parts for I understand and the pipes tend to break. You will want a 95 up Honda real soon so save some more and get a nice Honda or Yamaha TZ. -Yes they really do hold up in crashes. Typical stuff like handlebars footpegs etc. A good used bike should have all that stuff as spares. A radiator can hurt. - Yes you would be fine on a 125 and that is the direction I recomend you go in. 1-2 years in a 125 would be a nice platform to jump to the 250. If you even want to jump. I just sold my TZ 125 to a good friend of mine. He is a fast 250 guy.. He wants to sell them both and get a new Honda 125.. He loves it! Hope this helps.. An SV is a good bike to learn to Gas and go and get the experiance. GP is the real deal. Just do not loose 10 years like I did.. Take a good look at the GP deal.. Bill Cole WERA#72 ex
Hey Bill, Thanks for the input, man. Being a photographer at the races, I tend to look very closely at everything you racers do and it just seems like that the GPs truly have a lot of fun. In the next few weeks, I'll have some other questions for you and if I buy one, I'll be the idiot in the paddocks asking for tuning help Bruce
I just searched Honda GP 125 and got only race reports. I checked Honda.com and couldn't find the GPs listed in their model list. Is there a good website (in addition to the BBS) to learn more about GPs?
Try rising sun cycles at rscycles.com. They have new and used bikes for sale. Cool site too! BTW, the wifw said NO! to the Honda NSR 500. I dunno why. Its only like 90,000 bucks. You can also try GP Star at gpstar.net. Sorry for not posting links, but I havent figured out how on this BBS.
I have raced a RGV 250 (street bike) and an RS125 and have to say that the 125 is a better choice. The RGV, like the Aprilia, can be costly on parts. The 125 is fairly easy to tune. I am 5'10 at 175 lbs and won 2 Regional Championships in 97 on a 125. If you are looking at$3k or less thats going to get you a 94 or older. I would try to at least get a 95. Can find one for $3500 if you look. www.gpstar.net is a good place to start. The 95 handles better and has more mid range than a 94 down. Chuck D
Bruce, I'm 5'6" and only a few pounds less than you, and I find the TZ125 much more comfortable than the RS. This is just my humble opinion, but I believe shared by many. If you go the Honda route on a 125, get a 95 or newer bike. The older ones are even less comfortable than the 95+ models, and have more maintanence issues. The Yamaha TZ125's are 94+. The chassis of the TZ is very similar throughout the year range. I've got a pair of TZ125's (one 94 and one 95) for sale, along with a boatload of spare parts. E mail me at [email protected] if you are interested in learning more about them. PS - I think Nancy should go with the screen name "Nancy" while you change to "Sluggo." And then find me a woman that looks like "Aunt Fritzi"
I was considering an SV and went the 125 route. Everything Bill said is true. I've gone race weekends where I did not change the jetting and was OK(not recommended). A set of bridgestones are about $200 and will lasta good whiule depending on how many races you ride. My biggest problem now is spending the money for the crankshaft. check out mce-racing.com, www.two-stroke.com Jeff
Jeff try Elias Corey at www.gpstar.net for a deal on a crank. I think I used to get them for about $250 Chuck
ROTFLMAO! YamahaRick, Can't wait to show that one to Nancy. She doesn't know about lurking over here on the 2 stroke forum yet. Rick or any of you GPs, what kind of lap times do y'all do on the North Course of VIR, for example. What kind of speed do you hit down the frontstretch and the downhill portion? Are the GPs such a blast to ride because of torque? Or grip or what is it that seems to make them so magical to y'all. Obviously, I've never been on one, but have watched enough of you to see they really have to be addicting and can't wait to find out fer myself! So, gpwannabee, I take it that tire expense is less (or much less) than say for an SV650? Sorry for all the dumb questions, but do you run them with aftermarket parts, like say a Penske shock or are they already race ready...well I guess they would have to be or they wouldn't be GPs?
Your not asking dumb questions and keep asking that is what this board is all about. What is it about the GP bike that makes it so fun. Well I can only tell you from my experiance. All the other bikes you see on the track are street bikes. They are designed for the mass market with street riding the priority. A GP is a pure race bike. Meaning it was designed for only one purpose.. The race track. The handling is not to be believed. It is so adjustable that you can find set up for every track you go to. When you make a change in ride height you feel it. It takes a few outings on a GP bike to get it dialed in but not only will you get your GP bike to handle the way YOU want it you will also learn alot about motorcycle set up. The manual spells it all out for you. VIR is a great track. Without going to the shop to look up lap times I believe that a 1:37? is in the ball park.. Top speed is about 125-130mph but it is the cornerspeed and braking... Oh my God!! It can corner so much faster than an average 4 stroke that you can easily hit them. But you have a GP bike so you just pull it to the inside or the outside and pipe it right past... You can even wave if you like... Most 4 strokers get very frustrated with the little 40 HP monsters. On average you will get 3-4 weekends from a set of tires. They are about $250 a set. I go through alot of tires as I have been blessed with the tire bill going elsewhere. I will go through 2 fronts to every rear. As far as the comfort of the RS. I had a 97 TZ up to this year. The Honda is a tighter fit and requires greater range of motion in the knee. However, I just installed rear sets (footpeg brackets) that are longer than stock and it is just as the Yamaha was. I had my old bike at the track for comparison. For $208.00 you can get both sides complete with shifter, brake pedal, footpegs, and rear sets from John Helm... Really nice stuff also.. Hope this helps. Bill Cole WERA #72ex
If you decide on a 250, the following may help: You'll smoke the best SV's on the straights. You'll REALLY smoke the 125's and 400's. Be sure to plan ahead when passing one, you could be going 20+ mph faster. At VIR, as an expert, you'll need to do steady 34's with some 33's to run at the front next year in club races. My best this year was a 32.5 in the AMA race. FYI Himmelsbach, Renfrow, Oliver, Sorenson and co. were doing 30's and 29's pretty easily. If you're fast enough to do 37's or better, plan on a set of tires a weekend. On front Dunlops 5-8 heat cycles or up to 70 laps has been done but you're pushing it. The faster you are, the quicker you should change 'em. Same heat cycles on the rear but pay attention after 50 laps. In our 2000 TZ250 I ran 15/40 with std. 6th to 13,000rpm just after start finish which computes to 154mph with Dunlops. Other tires circumference would affect the final speed. Brian Kcraget and Jason Peters were able to do 34's on their 125's, pretty impressive! Most of the rest, like Bill said, 37's to 44's give or take. Once you learn how to ride the 250, you'll be able to hang with most 600's. The newer Yamahas will stay will all but the fastest 600's on the straights. Best of luck on your decision. Feel free to email me if you have any further 250 questions, I don't know anything about the 125's except they can out corner a 250. Jason and Brian taught me that numerous times this year. Monty Warsing #925 in everything
250s are fast, but the 125s are a lot more affordable and more bang for the buck. The fun is in the corners, not on the straights. I also have a '95 TZ125 for sale if you're interested, but I'm in Texas. I'm asking $2250 for it. I have some motor spares, gearing, jetting, manual. Jack
Jack, Would you mind posting or JPEGing a photo of it if you can? Here's another question for anyone: What about riding schools, specifically at VIR. Are there separate, different schools for GPs? Or can you sign up for a "regular" school and get some pertient advice on the GPs, specifically the 125s? Thanks
Go to http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/9916/rdtz.html for pix. I do need to update that site. The SRX is no longer in my possession. Also, there are some pix if you take the link to my 125GP page, another sight I need to update.
