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FL man shoots unarmed kid. Walks home, has a beer.

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by Steeltoe, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member

    Any confrontation with the police by a number of individuals constitutes a riot if it turns into crashing and burning of other people's property. I'm merrily showing that there is more one riot (riots) being reported on. How many people does it take to make up a riot? If one cares to research it they can find many "skirmishes" in the US over this issue.

    Granted, some of them are probably mini riots that were just waiting for a reason to start and this trial was as good a reason as any. I suspect that some of them were going through withdrawals because they had not had a good reason to break something for awhile.
  2. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member

    That's only because there are no gang bangers that can figure out how to put one in his pocket. I think one gang banger tried to use one a year or so ago when he jerked it out of his low-rider, turned it sideways, stuck it out to arms length, and promptly broke his jaw when he fired it.

    Oh shit! He forgot about the recoil.:):)

    I'm bullshitting, no one really did that. :) That I know of.
  3. Joe Morris

    Joe Morris Off The Reservation

    I'm not a brawler. Sure, I prefer a fight over some other forms of conflict resolution but I'm probably just a dinosaur in that thinking. Still, when I see the Chicago murder figures I think they could stand to throw hands and leave the guns at home. The guys at the bar wanted to fight. We didn't. Simple as that. There wasn't going to be a fight. The fact that the instigator was Irish and his pronunciation of the word "twat" makes me giggle even now didn't help move things along. But I surely didn't feel threatened by them and could laugh off the possibility of a brawl so maybe that changes things. I dunno. Plenty of people on this board know me and couldn't imagine me in a fight. It is kind of hard to imagine! Heck, Britt scares the crap out of me sometimes. :crackup:
  4. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure about other states however, in Texas, before the stand-your-ground took effect, someone that was armed, and even being in his own home, had to make every effort to retreat before using lethal force. The only way one could legally use lethal force was basically when you had no escape from a confrontation.
  5. ACDNate

    ACDNate Well-Known Member

    The discussion of increases in homicides among white males is kind of an irrelevant fact since they don't distinguish how much of the rise in total are the result of justifiable homicides or just general homicides. If they are justified homicides then why does that number really matter?
  6. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member

    I know how you feel. I married an Italian and considering that Italy cooperated with the Nazis I have to watch my wife like a hawk. I can't sleep at night for fear that I'll wake up dead. What to do, what to do? Woe is us. :)
  7. Joe Morris

    Joe Morris Off The Reservation

    I can't really discuss something I've barely studied. That link came to my attention and I thought it was interesting because it conflicted with my expectations. I didn't dig into it any more though.

    Personally I'd like for all deaths at the hands of another put before a jury. I realize that would be a burden on the courts. But I just have no faith in the cops or D.A. to make those judgements. A jury of the peers should, IMHO, and the standards of the community should be set that way. I feel like that way you get around the institutional bias of government beaurocracy and get a better measure from the people (as flawed as they can be). So in that sense when I read of higher murder rates I think of more court traffic. That's about it.
  8. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    But you're disregarding his point.
    Where is the outrage over those deaths caused by the "slim minority" of blacks? I don't see anything remotely comparable to the outrage directed at GZ.
    And if hundreds of deaths in just one city committed by blacks, who make up 20% of the population, isn't causing widespread outrage, then how does it make any sense that such an immense amount of outrage is directed at a "white person" concerning one shooting by a "white man", when whites are roughly 70% of the population?
    That would make that one white person something considerably less than a slim minority.
    An anomaly would be a better description.
    So, while maybe stated in a way that is uncomfortable to read, his point is consistent with reality.
  9. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member

    I cannot testify as to how NC laws affect this scenario. Here is how it is in the state of Texas.

    Since you cannot carry a concealed weapon and consume alcohol at the same time, you would have some serious explaining to do to a judge on that issue alone. Secondly, if you're in a bar, or another business that obtains over one half of their income from the sale of alcohol, you cannot be armed in the place to begin with. Having a firearm in your car in the parking lot is another consideration however.

    Of course, if you were able to go to your car to obtain the weapon, then you should have burned rubber out of the place instead of opening fire. In the event where you did use your weapon and survived the encounter, your only positive in this whole matter would be that you would be alive to speak to a judge. Very small consolation huh?:)
  10. Joe Morris

    Joe Morris Off The Reservation

    North Carolina doesn't have a SYG law. I'm not well versed in the differing wording in different states as I can only seem to find Iowa online. I was in Maine at the time and I had no idea if they had a SYG law or not. But it did give me pause when they threw all of us into the street. Not like it changed any outcomes.
  11. theJrod

    theJrod Well-Known Member

    No, not entirely correct. A jury of your peers must find that you had a reasonable fear for your life. You alone don't get to make that determination. You can claim it all you want, but just because you think your life was in danger doesn't necessarily mean a jury/judge/prosecutor will.
    There's usually a "reasonable and prudent" piece in the law somewhere (there is in my state).
  12. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    The problem that SYG laws address is finding yourself in court with 12 other people second-guessing whether or not you could have safely turned your back on a threat and run away rather than actively protect yourself.
    That's twelve people who weren't there and didn't have to make a quick decision concerning an unforeseen situation.
    Twelve people who get hours to consider the possible outcomes if only you had done something different in the seconds you had to respond.
    Taking away that responsibility to run away and, instead, determine how to best protect yourself from a threat gives the threatened person a better chance, using decisions unclouded by what those 12 people might later decide "might" have been done differently.
    It takes the onus off the victim and puts it on the aggressor, where it should be.
  13. Joe Morris

    Joe Morris Off The Reservation

    So a judge makes that determination after hearing the evidence presented by lawyers in court is better? I'm not convinced. I think the citizens of the community should make that call. Either way it goes to court, evidence is presented, and a decision is made. I'm not sure what SYG accomplishes except shifting the judgement to a different group.
  14. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Well-Known Member

    Greta basically used her as a punching bag.
  15. Joe Morris

    Joe Morris Off The Reservation

    Like I said, my sampling of state laws is 1. Can anyone provide some other examples? I can't find them on the net.
  16. Britt

    Britt Well-Known Member


    Without SYG;
    In some places, if you are at home, someone breaks into your garage and is stealing your car..you walk out and see him..he points a gun at you, YOU have to Retreat into your home...IF he comes into your home, say you are in the living room and CAN retreat further before killing him you must...You Must Exhaust ALL Avenues of Retreat Before you can Kill him.

    With SYG;, He breaks in, is stealing yer car..you walk out say "Hey WTF are you doing", He points the gun at you...BLAMMMMO..you shoot his thieving ass.

    Sort of and shit...:)
  17. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

  18. JeffroJ

    JeffroJ 3 Ninjas and a Mexican

    Wouldn't that be where the castle doctrine applies? Stand your ground covers you if a similar scenario takes place away from your home, but only if it's in an area that you were permitted to be carrying.
  19. Britt

    Britt Well-Known Member

    Oh, I am sorry, where did I go wrong..?

    I am sure it is ALL Wrong...hence I didn't say I was a Lawyer.

    But it seems I can set the hook...:crackup:
  20. JeffroJ

    JeffroJ 3 Ninjas and a Mexican

    Yes :D

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