Exteme Brake Fade

Ill start off with this is my daily bike. a 05 GSXR 1000. I dont have a car. I love doing track days on the bike though. I ride in the advanced class and feel like i am a quick rider.

My problem is my brakes. I have to bleed my brakes after every 20 minute session because of brake fade. Towards the end of the session, my lever is crushing my fingers against the clip on.

As far as my brake set up goes, I have:

Brembo 19x20
Braided lines
SBS HH Pads
RBF600 brake fluid

I have no idea in what direction I should be going now.....

 

This is a good start...



Make sure you take the calipers apart and dump the old fluid out COMPLETELY.

Besides that, make sure your calipers aren't dragging.

 

check for leaks everywhere, even a tiny leak will cause that. Check the crush washers I replace them everytime I do anything with my brake linesand or master.

 

Clean rotors, to get all the built up pad residue off...good non glazed pads...and the fluid above..with correctly bled brakes...they should work really well.

 

418- What do you mean by take the calipers apart? Removing them from the bike, removing pads and getting as much fluid out?

Track Wagon- I have not sean any fluid leak ANYWHERE.

Britt- ill clean them. The brakes work great the first half session and then just start going downhill from there. Ill try that fluid out.

 

try these guys in South FL
http://shop.888murrays.com/

 

Remove the pistons. Get the fluid out from behind them, this is something that you will never get out completely with bleeding. No matter what your bleeding method is.

 

Holy sh! that stuff is expensive compared to RBF!

 

And rbf is not that cheap either!!!

 

Well...you said you wanted to fix it.

 

The problem isn't the fluid. RBF 600 is great for all but the top riders, and it's still really good for them too. Castrol SRF is just overkill for most, but it is the top fluid.

'03 GSXR 750 brakes with RBF 600 fluid, SS lines and Galfer HH pads sucked ass with fade like you describe. Thoroughly prepped rotors (sanded) and replaced pads with Vesrah RJL. Night and day difference. Negligible fade during a session. If you didn't prep your rotors to remove the old pad residue, that may be your problem.

When you bleed your brakes between sessions, are you actually getting air out of the lines? If so, you might have a leak between the reservoir and the m/c allowing air to be drawn in, but I really suspect something is amuck with your pads/rotors.

 

Clean calipers REALLY well.

Teflon tape on bleeder threads to make sure you dont pull air in past them. I dont do the pump up, open, close repeat method of bleeding. With teflon on the screws and a clear hose attached to the bleeder nipple I crack it just barely so that it almost feels like it is closed (still some tension on the lever) and bleed an entire reservoir through each of the three nipples in order...... twice around. So MC, right caliper, left caliper, repeat all three. Tap the lines in between.

I have had MUCH MUCH better results with this method than with the old pum pump crack repeat method. And I think the number one thing that helped was teflon tape on the threads like I stated.

I truly think most fade is due to poor bleeding (even though people think they bled like crazy) and dirty caliper pistons and seals causing rotor drag and less so due to any master cylinder issue or fancy pants fluid.

 

Since you are a trackday rider, and don't HAVE to run the Suzuki calipers, I would suggest getting rid of them, and bolting on a set of Brembo Monoblocks.
http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=220.A397.10

 

two lines from master and no crossover....

i see there are braided lines where it is two lines with longer banjo at the master cylinder. One line to each caliper straight from master. Some are like the stock set up, one line at the master to crossover to the calipers. What is better?

 

That's a hell of a absolute statement. I used RBF600 for a couple of years with varying results, depending what track we went to. SRF solved my issues.

I'm not a "top rider" but at 230# I can demoralize a good braking system pretty quickly.

If he's getting air out of the lines between session it's possible he's boiling the fluid. You don't know if the fluid is or isn't the problem any better than I do. I was letting him know what is the ultimate solution.

 

230# nekkid or geared? :P

I'm 225# nekkid, so I understand demoralization of braking systems. With my current setup, I can use the cheap valvoline synthetic DOT 4 or RBF 600 with minor differences in performance - both acceptable for hard track abuse (well... for a decent amateur race pace). If I boil the fluid here in AZ, I can't tell the difference. My stock m/c is far inferior to his.

Generally, there is an issue with a component when the problem is as severe as the OP describes. It was true in my case, and there have been several other non-fluid related suggestions. Maybe the Castrol will cure his ills, but it's likely just masking some other issue.

I hesitate to recommend upgraded fluid as the first line as the higher performance the fluid, the higher the cost and the more frequently it needs to be changed, thus costing even more than the price on the jug. Higher performance fluids are more hygroscopic and deteriorate at a faster rate than their lower performance cousins. I'm happy swapping my RBF out twice a year... don't care to do it more than that, and I would feel obligated with the Castrol. It's the ultimate option for fluid choice... not the ultimate solution for anything.

 

In THEORY it should not matter. Brake fluid for all intents and purposes should be like a really bendy steel rod LOL> Your MC pushes on one end, and the other "ends" push on all the pistons. Since it is not compressible, nor are the pistons etc, it should impart the same force equally on all surfaces when you pull the lever, regardless of of how the fluid is routed.

In practice, it seems the dual lines from teh MC works better. From what I have been told and it makes sense...... it has to do with the heat buildup and the way it sinks away from the pistons.


FWIW, I use cheap autozone DOT4 brake fluid, stock MC, Carbone loraine SBK5 pads, and Goodridge dual line setup. I never have fade. Ever. I would say I run pretty quick. Trackday fast. Laptimes able to put me on the podium in a novice race, although hot laps and racing are quite different I realize. I bleed my brakes as I stated above, I have removed both the judder springs and squeal plates from the calipers and clean my pistons in the calipers religiously. :crackhead:

 

Of course you would Fred. Monoblocks look like they would stop a freight train on a dime.

 

how are you guys cleaning your rotors? did I see someone say "sanding" them??

 

I use a green scotch bright on them. I dont sand mine, or bead blast them like some people do :dunno.