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exhaust question

Discussion in 'General' started by jim weaver, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. jim weaver

    jim weaver Well-Known Member

    what is the reason that race teams over the years went from ,example 4 into 4 to4 into one. is 4 into 1 more effecient or just a pluming issue. a an example the vintage hondas, mvs all ran 4 into 4. opinions ? same with 2into 1.
     
    TurboBlew likes this.
  2. Steeltoe

    Steeltoe What's my move?

  3. Motofun352

    Motofun352 Well-Known Member

    The old 4 into 4 designs were popular back in the 60's/70's before the science was evolved. A lot of CBX's had 6 into 6 pipes...looked cool and sounded fantastic...probably not the solution for peak performance.
     
  4. SPL170db

    SPL170db Trackday winner

    From what I recall reading....4 into 1 lends itself to maximum top end power perhaps loosing a bit of low-mid. 4-2-1 a little less top end gain with a more even power spread across the RPM range.
     
  5. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    Rob Muzzy might argue that individual pipes made more power.
    I also hear reverse megaphones are good for tuning...must be why you see 'em on individual pipes.
     
    TurboBlew likes this.
  6. Scotty87

    Scotty87 Lacks accountability

    I can tell you without any doubt, a 2-1 will always out perform a 2-2 system. At least on a Harley or twin. I know the jokes are coming, but it stands to reason that the same holds true for I-4 engines.
     
  7. turner38

    turner38 Well-Known Member

    Its complicated.

    All depends on the configuration and what the engine wants.
    Flat crank inline fours scavenge better with a four into one system typically although a tri y type 4/2/1 will make a wider spread of power normally.
    There is so much that is involved in exhaust design from cam timing and overlap to port volume and runner length....
     
    deepsxepa likes this.
  8. Britt

    Britt Well-Known Member

    Packaging Constraints are also a consideration.
     
  9. Robby-Bobby

    Robby-Bobby Steeltoe’s Daddy

    Too many factors to take into consideration....

    Engine dynamics being the biggest.
     
  10. joec

    joec brace yourself


    Except....uh....crank configuration. Performance is too general of a term when youre referencing "race" motors. Drag. Landspeed. Flat track. Roadrace. Lots of differences there. But I know that the people who developed exhausts for cb350s knew what they were doing and 2-2 for road racing is the way to go.
     
  11. Scotty87

    Scotty87 Lacks accountability

    When you say 2-2 are you saying 2 completely separate pipes, or a 2-1-2 with a crossover?
     
  12. joec

    joec brace yourself

    2 completely separate pipes.
     
  13. joec

    joec brace yourself

    The cb350 is a 180 crank which is why 2-2. I did the a 2-1 for a few years but ditched out because of ground clearance. I didn't notice any difference I could associate with the exhaust, but the 2 builds were significantly different. Different crank phasing on twins makes a big difference.
     
  14. Scotty87

    Scotty87 Lacks accountability

    Makes sense. My experience building exhausts is limited to HD
     
  15. joec

    joec brace yourself

    I'm definitely no expert. And that of course applies to old junk. So...
     
  16. ghetto customs

    ghetto customs Who's that Parrish guy?

    Where can I source ss or ti tubing to build an exhaust?
     
  17. TurboBlew

    TurboBlew Registers Abusers

  18. Scotty87

    Scotty87 Lacks accountability

    Ticon Industries. Ask for Brian, tell him Scott from Local Custom sent you there.
     
  19. Britt

    Britt Well-Known Member

    BurnsStainless.com
     
  20. cf

    cf Well-Known Member

    There are lots of SAE technical papers and some texts on this subject, but the bottom line is that 'tuning' an engine is like 'tuning' a muscial insturment like a pipe organ (a real one powered by air, with bellow or a blower). In an organ, the pipes are tuned to resonate at different frequencies (notes) by altering the pipe diameter and length and thus altering the interaction of the pressure/sound waves inside of the pipe.

    An engine is similar, except instead of tuning it for a particular frequency (note), the goal is to tune it so that there is a local negative pressure wave at the pipe entrance, e.g. at the exhaust port, at the point of exhaust valve opening, to help draw waste gases out of the combustion chamber. Of course the tradeoff is that this tuning can be made to work well at a very specific rpm, but then may be detrimental at other rpms, so the balance is in helping at the particular rpm of interest, without hurting too much throughout the rest of the usable rev range.

    In real life as you add the same effects that are tuned into the intake system (except tuning is for a local high pressure at the intake port), plus multicylinder engines of different configurations which allows interactions between cylinders, e.g. using the exhaust pulses from various cylinders together, coupled with the various torque curve shapes and engine response characteristics desired, and there's no end to the amount of exhaust configurations that might be worth trying.

    There is no 'right' answer, it all depends. The Honda RC211 and 212 V are an easy way to see how even with the same engine the exhaust can change quite a bit depending on what parameters are a priority. Compare these 2 phots and the big difference in collector length from ports and pipe length post collector. Honda seems to play with this area ALOT, I assume the others do as well but the Honda rear pipe gets photographed alot so the changes jump out more compared to others.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    In summary, I HAVE NO IDEA, it all depends.
     

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