DSB and SS weights changed today.

I don't recall if the rules came first, or the displacement. But I do know that the 848cc displacement was very popular even before the 848 was made. Most 749s were punched out to 848.

 

It isn't an "advantage". It is performance indexing...and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

The thought of trying to force a bike with only 2 cylinders to compete at the same displacement as bikes with 4 cyliders is ridiculous and implementing that would drive all non-I4 manufacturers out of racing...and that wouldn't help anything nor anybody.

 

I was involved with the S-Works Triumph team in 08. We popped our share of motors looking for a build that worked. That year, the WSS team went through their fair share of motors as well.

Could the bike be competitive at the top level? Hard to say. It could be close, but, IMO, only in SBK trim. Offset triples help that motorcycle a lot. And there's a lot to figure out in that motor. A lot of guys (by comparison) can build solid R6 lumps that make good power. I only know of a few guys that have a good grasp of the 675 motors, one of those guys being JD Hord. (And, nothing against JD because I don't know how the new owner has been treating his old 675, but I just saw that motor pop during the team challenge at NJMP a few weeks ago. That said, if I needed a proper 675 motor built, JD would be the guy to do it, without a doubt.)

But they are neat little bikes.

 

Two cylinders aren't as efficient as four. That's not up for debate, it's a fact. How much weight comes off or displacement added or whatever is applicable to make things even as possible always changes. Bikes evolve to keep sales alive, racing rules have to follow suit. Seems simple to me. The 851's and 750s, 916's, big bore Kawi 750's, Aprillias, Honda RC51's etc. All kinds of cool stuff has happened. I think it's great, I think your bitchin' just to bitch I will say that the CC % gap seems to always been around 18-22 % but the 848 is 41 % bigger. That is quite a bump. Whatever, I think it makes for great racing and cool products, I'd hate to see one style of bike on floors or racetracks :up: Don't you have a soul? What's wrong with you, twins feel like they're missing? Blasphemy I say.

 

Joke wasn't lost on me :up:

 

I have a quick question... how do they index them? Is it horsepower vs weight, straight line accel vs weight?

How do you make sure you are just performance indexing them to make up for a less effiencent engine making the bike slower, and not indexing them to make up for a less efficient bike making the bike slower?

 

That is your opinion.

My opinion is that it should be a CC limit only or weight per CC. The fact is smaller is always more efficient but we don't all want to be riding ten cylinder 50's just like we don't want to be riding 1200 cc singles.

 

Horsepower is a good start. Then laptimes / in-race performance.
If one has a clear advantage, that's when they start in with the weight limits and displacement allowances.

I think John touched on an important point - it would seem logical (based on the last few years' results) that the first few tracks on the AMA schedule tend to favor the power delivery of twins. But after that, the fours start to dominate. I definitely think it's premature for the AMA to be making any mid-season changes.

 

But we have had a few people say that when looking at the numbers the v-twins put down on the dyno, it doesnt always pan out on the track. I would think acceleration would be more important than HP.

 

Like I said, it's a start. I'm sure there's a number of things a series organizer would look at, but in the end, it's about parity of competition. If bike A accelerates way better, but bike B has better laptimes, and bike C has more HP... well what do you do? It's a constant juggle, especially since manufacturers/teams will do everything within the rules to be more competitive.

 

Where do you think Acceleration comes from? Magic JuJu beans?

Horsepower to weight is the largest factor of acceleration.

 

I know that. But it was said a few times in this thread that v-twin hp is not representative of I4 horsepower on the track.

 

Maybe cuz within the current rules they're heavier...

 

Someone's gonna have to pry my RC51 from my cold dead hands. That's what I ride on the street. The seat is the most uncomfortable. The heat coming off the engine is scorching to the inner thighs........ But........the sound of that beast coming through my Sato Titanimums...............Priceless. Beast of a wheelie machine to boot.

 

Throw some fuel at it with a fat tune, it'll cool it down plus make a cool burble sound on the overrun :up: They do sound tits with a good exhaust don't they?

 

Those aren't opinions, those are facts.

2 cylinders aren't as productive as 4 with the same cc's: fact.

Removing manufacturers from the AMA will not help anything, that is also a fact. We need MORE manufacturers in the AMA, not less.

Your opinion is based upon some fairy tale world where OEM's build bikes based upon the AMA's rules. If that were the case, sure...make a 600cc limit and leave it up to the manufacturers to build a bike that will work.

But that isn't how it works. As Chip mentioned, they build bikes to sell them and to make money. They don't build bikes to cater to the AMA. If the AMA wants to survive and have as many manufacturers as possible, provisions have to be made so more motorcycles can get on the grid.

 

Remember - the bikes came first, then people decided to race them.


Why is this not an issue in car racing???
They have 4, 6 & 8 cylinder cars racing against each other - some are even turbocharged or supercharged.

 

I understand that based on your posts, you haven't been involved in racing for that long, but there are quite a few examples to the contrary. Like the OW01. Or the Kawasaki RRs. Or the RC45. Ducati does it often enough to be mentioned with all their R/S/RR or whatever models with features like the adjustable steering head that they want homologated for the race bike but are too expensive to be on "street bikes". And so on.

Granted, that was then, and this is now. But it still happens to a degree.

 

^^^ This.

 

I understand, but i think the key statement is "to a degree".

I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt that if the AMA made a rule change that only allowed I-4 600cc bikes, Ducati would shitcan their platform and build a specific 600cc I-4 so they could race in the AMA.

Like i said, i could be wrong. But I just don't see it happening.