Ceaser versus the VFR

Hey Ceaser:
You asked me to not taint problem solving but I just wanted to re-post the orginal in case it helps you think.

My 99 VFR stopped running last week. It's like someone stole my plug wires while I was riding down the road.
No coughing or sputtering just "vrooooooooom" and then silence!

I first thought it was the regulator / rectifier. Bought a new one, threw it on, swapped the plugs (as they usually get wet after long re-start attempts)… nothing.

Everything comes on and the bike spins over HARD but no "vroom vroom".

I replaced the cam pulse generator thinking maybe the computer wasn't getting the info it needed to make a spark.

Before you say safety switches like clutch, side-stand… They wouldn’t even let the bike turn over and they’re still operational. Mine won’t “spark”.

 

I can't remember, did you go over the wiring harness? Did you test the voltage going from the brain to the coils and to the instruments. Bikes now a days have some of the "smarts" up in the instrument cluster and if you have a short or disconnect there that might be screwing up the computer.

Have you investigated the kill switch and wiring? Maybe its broken in the "off" position, that let you crank it all day long and not fire...
How many coils does a VFR have?

Just ideas....

 

Did you try turning the run/stop switch to the run position? My RC51 will crank until I get tired and not start due to this. Of course, I 'm not sure it's supposed to crank while in the off position but it runs in the run position so i don't care.

 

Dude... give the guy a LITTLE credit....

 

Does the fuel pump run when you turn the key on?...is there fuel in the tank (sorry, had to ask). if you have fuel pressure, I'd check for spark next. if you have spark and fuel pressure, you may not have an injector pulse. How about the fuses?

 

Thanks for the inputs!

I'll take the run / start switch comment graciously! We've all done it!
But no that's not it.

I've ohmed out ever important parts of the harness. All the safety switches work and the harness reports ok from them all the way to the ECM.
I didn't go into the ignition switch though. That's a good idea! I could see the start circuit being OK and only 1/2 the run side. Ceaser?
The VFR has 4 coils so I don't think they'd all go bad and the common ground to all four of them ohms out OK. I didn't have an oscilliscope to check the pulses but what I could ohm out seemed OK.
I do get fuel pump with the key and with all the safety switches. I keep wanting to check the pressure but just as I pull out my pressure gauge (from my BMW days) I remind myself that I don't have any spark!!!

Thanks again y'all.

 

I'm working on it...

 

I say this with a unblemished record of staunch heterosexuality: Ceaser, I love you.

 

next post... "this is gonna cost ya!"

 

Ceaser in the shop on his day off after a hard track day! Hell ya it's gonna cost me.

But right now my main of of transpo is down... hard.

It's been down 3 weeks. One week waiting for me to get a part, another week while I plotted to burn it and the last waiting on Ceaser's capable hands. Why is it I seem to be able to fix / build / repair / work on everyone's bike but my own?!?!?!?

"Cost" is so relative though. I'm sure money will be somehow involved as a shop ticket was opened. But can you really put a price on undying gratitude?!?!?!?

It appears as though I've now completely lost it. See what sitting in 1.5 hours of Atlanta traffic will do! Damned rain / power outages / wrecks and down traffic lights!!!!!!!!

I just want my ride back!

 

No word on the patient yet?

Or is it bad news???

 

Huey, take your voltmeter and

1. make sure there is 12v going into the coils. (should be the case on a honda) But may not be, what the schematic say about the flow of power on the ignition circuit?

2. check voltage coming off the ignition rotor on the end of the crank, and make sure you are getting intermittent voltage as you spin the bike.

4. Ignition switch sounds like a good lead to chase...follow the hot wire off the ignition switch with the bike in the on position and make sure its sending 12v where it needs to be.

3. I am off all day tomorrow, Zane and I have plans to play with Ed and Lunch with Paige, so we'll be close to you. Let me know if you want us to swing by and I'll see what I can figure out. I'll bring my Hontech diploma if it makes you feel better.

Mark

 

Hopefully no news is good news. I'd call down to the shop but I don't want to derail any problem solving process Ceaser has going right now.

Yup battery voltage when the key is on. But no way of checking the voltage drop for the coil discharge. I assume it's not getting it because none of them are firing.

Yup. I built a max voltage tester with a diode and capaciter. I get 7ish volts. Same with the one on the camshaft. I wish I had an osciliscope to look at the cycles though.

Haven't done this. I should of but I had it in my head that I'd never heard of 1/2 a circuit dying. If it's not something completely stupid then I bet it'll be in here.

I appreciate it but the bike is down at Ceaser's shop. I'll relay any suggestions though. Thanks....

Like a expectant father pacing the waiting room floor,
Huey

 

What you mistakingly replaced and referred to as a "pulsing coil" is actually a cam position sensor. The actual pulsing coil, identified by a 2 terminal red connector with yellow (+) and a white/yellow (-) coded wires, has not been touched. I will be checking it against a known good unit tomorrow (Wed.) morning.

 

Ceaser, I never reffered to any thing as a "pulsing coil". I replaced the "cam pulse generator". I know what it is. I wish you'd listen to me more when I speak to you. I'm not an idiot.

The one you speak of (on the crank) was checked per the book (if you're saying it hasn't been touched because it appears I haven't pulled off the cover then you're right: I didn't pull the cover). The connector is beside the starter synchro valves and happens to coexhist with the plug for the cam pulse generator.
Book says I should get anything over .7vdc on a max voltage tester. I got 3.something VDC on the crank (and 7.something on the cam). This of course assuming the max voltage checker I made works correctly which it did against the 3 known voltages I tested it against.

But I would LOVE for that to be the problem. I sincereyly hope it is. I'm not sure I tested it right not to mention I tested it with a max voltage tester that I made from Radio Shack parts. Hell I replaced a $63 dollar part that probably didn't need replacing!

Irregardless it's still broke and if I had access to the swapping parts that you did I'd be estatic! That's one of the reasons you have it. The MAIN reason is because working on bike's is a hobby to me: it's your job.

So you worked on it all day today? The reason I ask is: it was on your bench when you were closing up on Sat. I mean it's a rash assumption of me but with you knowing it's my transportation and my obvious dissapointment, I can't see how it would of been taken down until it was fixed... (unless you were waiting on parts).

Hey incase you missed the earlier post, here's some pics of when I had it "down":
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/huey130/...order=&.view=t&.done=http://photos.yahoo.com/

I look forward to your call tommorrow. Thanks again.

PS: forgot to mention when I dropped the book off: I also have the micro fische if you need part numbers.

 

.

 

temper temper boys...

Thanks for the pics Craig, I now know more about the innards of a VFR than I ever wanted to...

 

More frustration than anger. I have a 1999 with 27,000 miles on it. Based upon when I bought it and the fact that it's been down 4 weeks means I'm about 750 miles in the hole right now!!!!!!!!!!

I need a fix!!!!!!!!

 

Calm down, friend.

I am trying to get it to you for this weekend. Luckily, we have a donor bike here.