Are Spec Tires Series Legal?

Boycott Goodyear for first fighting the concept, then becoming a hypocrite for getting involved in it years later.

 

A Certain tire manufacture did not use this as a dumping ground to get rid of tires but to create and develop a series that racers could afford to do and also be on the same competitive tires week in and week out. This series is still in place and works very well. I truely take offence to this comment. This tire manufacturer also supports a spec tire series in the World Superbike realm that is highly succesful. I do not know if you are aware of this or not but it is called the World Superstock championship. I believe in the right series and the right areas that a pec tire series is a very effective way to get more racers involved in racing at certain cost levels.
P.S. Have you ever asked any GLRRA racers whether they like the spec class or is this just your opinion?

Rich Munson
Pirelli / Metzeler Race Mgr.

 

It actually was so maddening to many of my customers that they quit racing with that series as a result. I have never heard any favorable comment on that program.

Those racers knew they weren't on current spec tires (that was why they were cheap, $200 a set if I remember), and I think that aggravated their disappointment with the arrangement. I don't mean to offend you Rich...

Certainly, at present, MP tires rule! They support our sport better than any tire manufacturer(particularly outside of the AMA), they have the best product, at the best price, and excellent service, support, and sponsorship at all levels, all over America. I simply can't say anything bad about them. I encourage all WERA racers to try them.

(and I am a dyed in the wool Michelin Man...)

 

I think more of the "benefits" (money) tend to filter into the racing organizations than actually down into the racer's pockets as is one of the intents of a spec tire.

But I geuss that if NASCAR does it, certainly Hoosier or Firestone, or Michelin or somebody would have challenged them legally. It must be different than free trade laws in the business world.

 

Along the lines of the guys who did the legal research in the Pitbull vs. Kneedraggers thing, I am wondering how a racing organization can have a "spec" tire?
(Like the AMA does for 2002 with its Dirttrack Series)

It seems to fall into a couple of categories of unfair practice...

"Price Maintenance" (there is a preset price for a set of tires everyone has to pay)

(I don't know what you call it) Trade Restriction, since there are other viable manufacturers of dirttrack tires.

I don't think everyone will get the "same" tires as we all know how the tire game works.

But anyway, is this legal or not?

GLRRA had a spec tire a few years ago, and it was a dumping ground for a certain manufacturer's unwanted, outdated tires. It went over like a lead balloon.

It may be perfectly legal since the sanctioning body is making the rules and you are agreeing to compete within their rules.

Anybody have any ideas?

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Max McAllister
President
Traxxion Dynamics, Inc.

 

How does that series work now Rich?

What does a racer pay for a set of tires?

Is he allowed to buy as many as he wants, or only a certain amount each weekend?

Do you still have a contingency program?

Is he allowed to choose amongst the compounds of tires MP offers?

What is your impression of the current satisfaction level of the racers in that program?

 

actually Hoosier did compete with goodyear in NASCAR a few years ago. They even had some success. Rumor I heard was they are too small an operation to keep up with production of NASCAR tires AND all the other stuff they do... I think other companies are allowed but have to submit tires for approval and then spend big $ to compete and produce sooooo many tires(cause those ground pounder eat'em up), etc... they decide not to get involved

 

Max,
Currently we still run a Heavyweight Supersport Expert and Novice class as well as a Middleweight Supersport class. We give a 10 tire contract to the winner of the Amatuer championships for the next year.

The price for tires was $270.00 a set for riders running the Spec classes. This year they could buy at that price for as many as they wanted but most racers would only use 1 set per weekend.

The riders could choose any compound that they wanted this year but in the past in was restricted to certain compounds. Yes in the first 2 years we did start the series on our older generation tire which is not in the same league as out new tire ( the new tire had not arrived at this point )but a spec class is to be on equal tires. Just like with the Aprilia cup spec class that was very sucessful..the bikes arent as good as the pure GP Aprilia bikes but they are all to the same spec and affordable to the riders. The restriction on compounds was creating extra cost to the riders who ran other classes with the same set so we allowed them to choose the compounds this year to help with the cost.

Yes, we still have contingency program but it has not been finalized for 2002 at this time.

I feel from speaking with the riders that race the spec classes that they are happy with the spec series. The organization is going through some changes that have nothing to do with us but we will continue to have the spec series as long as the racers want it. If the time comes that the racers do not like it then the organization will look into other ideas to help the amatuer racer.

I know that spec classes work but it is all perception of the rider it best suits. If the rider does not like the class he is not forced to race it. There are 30 other races that go on during the weekend.

I do appreciate that you push our product to new racers.

Rich Munson
Pirelli / Metzeler

 

I thought one of my questions was unclear...

Do the racers in this spec tire series get MP contingency like an ordinary club racer?

If they do, then this would be a good overall help to the racers.

But if they don't it seems like it would help the slow guys (which is ok), and hurt the fast guys, or guys who already had deals with other manufacturers.

What is the promoter's interest? Do they get a cut per tire, or a one time buy in? I realize I may be putting you on the spot, and some of these questions you may not be able to answer, but I feel like deals like this are always around the corner (obviously, Mongo has at least considered it...), and it would be in the interest of racers everywhere to know how it works, so maybe they weren't so alarmed if it happens one day.

 

PS, I will say also, that I actually haven't heard any negative comments on that program in about a season, so it seems that you may have worked out some of the bugs in that program.

 

Here in Canada (Ontario) the SV cup series was late being organized but started last year using Dunlops. Then they changed the spec mid season to Michelin. The people who'd stocked up were a bit mad.

Anyway, does anyone know if the new Pilots will be available in a 160? If not, will they continue to make the old Pilots?

 

Doug,

How come you don't use MP tires? It seems that you are convinced they are race winning tires (they are) and you like the series they are in.

I was once in a spec tires series when I raced stock cars. It didn't work out very good, and the program was abandoned.

The comments I hear aren't from a few buddies, they're from our customers. But anyway, I noted that I haven't heard anything bad for a year now. It does sound like it is going good! I wish GLRRA good luck with that, and the guy who runs it is very sharp, and does a great job. He is very ingenious. That club seems to have tons of very happy racers (Didn't it just change names, or was that another club up there?).

 

Walt Schaefer Cycle Supply
256 538-5906

 

I use Bridgestone tires because the service, information and advice I receive from Stick works well for me and prior to Stick, JB was the greatest at helping a newbie. ( shamless plug for Stick and JB) Not mention at one time not so long ago I had a stock rear on my 400 and the Stones worked the best, but that is another story and I have since changed to slicks.

I can honestly say I have never raced a GLRRA event. I do about half of the WERA North Central events and several track days each year.

Much like yourself I don't always do the norm. However, once I use up the Stones I have every intention of trying a set of the MP tires.

I would also be curious to know if it is possible to go back and look at the number of entries pre spec tire vs. after it was enforced. I am curious about this as my experiences tell me that the voices of a few upset people rarely represents the masses.

I am not trying to start another crappy thread, I am only trying to get facts vs. what some customers tell you about another service oriented company.

 

thank you. i try real hard to help everybody

stick

 

I prefer Dunlop anyway.

 

I'd have to ask myself, why would an org. want spec tires?? It's not like there are spec bikes, so the 'leveling the playing field' arguement in bullshit. So...........what else could it be???? MONEY ?!?!?!?!?!?

Money's all fine and dandy as long as its in everybody's best interest. Like Mongo said, the racers would have to benefit greatly to offset the loss of contingency, the relationship built with a particular manufacturer, .... However, if all the money's going to a select few, then its a load of crap.

Just my .03 $

 

There is a big difference between the number of tires used yearly in a roadracing series and Dirt track. In Dirt track it is only the top class that is spec tires. The other variable in Dirt track is that they might use the same front tire for more than one race weekend. So they only change the rear. Not hard to supply enough tires for this series. I have been to a few GLRRA races and the spec tire classes never had more than a dozen riders in them. Try the same thing in a series that gets full grids and would imagine that any tire manufacturer would have problems supplying the number of tires needed.I'm sure in the case of GLRRA they get a nice chunk of money from the tire company which helps put on these race weekends.i guess it's up to racers to decide if they want to run in a spec tire class and if the size of the grids mean anything it shows that it is not that well recieved. Now before i get Flamed , Larry Denning who i sponsor uses Pirelli tires and has been very successful on them. I prefer Dunlop for my other racebikes.