Advice needed for kart track bike

Discussion in 'Tech' started by africanjon, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. dallen.helmer

    dallen.helmer Well-Known Member

    Have almost a year of track riding intermediate paces.
    Im just suggesting if he all ready has a 675 he tracks, and he likes that bike why not just get a smaller cc bike and do kart track and big track with it. At our track 85cc and 125cc supermotos can't hang on our big track. Plus going from a smaller super sport feel back to the 675 super sport it's going to be alot more relatable. [​IMG]

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  2. D-Zum

    D-Zum Alex’s Crew Chief

    Wow! A year..you're an expert for sure.

    85s and 125s aren't meant for a big track. We're talking about kart tracks here. Courses from about 1/2 mile to a mile in length full of turns. Not NOLA.

    "Plus going from a smaller super sport feel back to the 675 super sport it's going to be alot more relatable."

    You couldn't make a more false statement if you tried. Everything on big bikes is the same on Minis. Body position, trail braking...it's all the same.

    Minis take power out of the equation and make you focus on your riding/technique. You cannot
    make up for a lack of skill with horsepower on a mini. You also don't have to deal with the gyroscopic effects all the weight of a
    big bike on a mini.

    Just like dirt bikes help you understand what a bike will do when traction breaks loose. So on pavement, when
    you get into a slide, or the rear breaks loose, you understand how to react to the movement you feel going on.
     
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  3. dallen.helmer

    dallen.helmer Well-Known Member

    Never said I was a expert smart ass just giving him the same direction I was put on, learn on a 300 perform better on bigger bike.

    But what do I know? He's not in the same shoes as me just starting off trying to get track time. You know LEARNING he doesn't need to know what pro races are using or riding he needs fundamentals but what do I fucking know right?


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  4. dallen.helmer

    dallen.helmer Well-Known Member

    Also to add to my last comment. He asking In the question it's self what would be closer to a 675. And apparently not to your knowledge that would be a 300cc sport bike with clip ons not upright handle bars.

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  5. dallen.helmer

    dallen.helmer Well-Known Member

    Power? What kind of 300s y'all riding. These thing literally can be wot after apexs or before if you know what your doing, try that on a 600 watch what happen.
    My gf rides a 300 on both of our track and only has been riding as long as we both been riding track. If she can handle all this "power" I'm pretty sure the og poster can too.


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  6. D-Zum

    D-Zum Alex’s Crew Chief

    These thing literally can be wot after apexs or before if you know what your doing

    Which is the exact point of minis. Learning to trail brake to the apex and get on the gas harder and sooner....builds technique and confidence without the fear of high siding to the moon.
    A 300 is aliken Hyabusa on a kart track. Too much power and the wheel base is WAY too long. 40HP is WAY too much. My Ohvale 160 has 15Hp...that's about the max I think I would want on a kart track. Josh Herrin has an Ohvale GP0 190cc version....talked to him at NJMP this past year and he said it's almost too much for a kart track when he trains. He kind of wishes he'd have bought the 160cc version. Look up some of his videos on youtube. You'll clue in there on what kart tracks and minis actually are.

    We're saying a 390/300 is the absolute wrong platform for kart tracks..which is his target venue for his question. The venue here is more important than the bike involved.
    They're short very technical courses.

    he doesn't need to know what pro races are using or riding

    Mr. Linders was trying to illustrate that how kart track MiniGP riding can translate to tremendous success on big bikes as riders move up into those classes. Branden Paasch just became the first American to win a Championship in a Support Class in the British Superbike Championship series. He and Anthony Mazziotto battled it out in the KTM 390 MotoAmerica series a couple years back. They started in the New Jersey MiniGP series.

    Your answers show your lack of experience, and that the direction you've been given to get started appears to be incorrect.
     
  7. dallen.helmer

    dallen.helmer Well-Known Member

    Reference my previous comment on size of the kart track. Then he can pick his bike. You are missing the whole point of he clearly has two track near him.

    He can use the 300cc for both track save money and learn at alot slower pace.

    Why use each bike for each track when you can have a track weapon that can do both.

    Clearly you can't teach that's for sure, if you can't get the concept of best bang for the buck and experience.




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  8. D-Zum

    D-Zum Alex’s Crew Chief

    He has two choices he was considering near him..not two tracks...you cannot read. And both are not good choices.

    The 390's wrong because it's a kart track 'Busa. The 150R is wrong because it's going to be a hell of a hand full on a kart track, and
    if he chooses to toss his hat in the mini racing scene in Sonoma, it's only eligible for a single class.

    I have no clue though...only been in MiniGP for 3 years with my 9 year old...and 21 years doing track days.
     
  9. dallen.helmer

    dallen.helmer Well-Known Member

    No sir clearly you can't read refer to my picture and prove me wrong. Which you haven't done once yet. I don't think he's putting a 675R Daytona Triumph on a kart track he clearly has a big track and a kart track either on the same facility or in the same area.


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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
  10. D-Zum

    D-Zum Alex’s Crew Chief

    Here's the first post:

    "I live close to Sonoma and want to take advantage of the kart track days they have and need advice on what type of bike would be best. I have two options close to me, the first is a 07CRF150 supermoto set up and the other is a KTM rc390 both at good prices. I do not race but enjoy doing track days (about 10 a year) on my 13 675r. So the question is, which bike would benefit my riding on the trumpet more? Or should I just spend the money on more track days (easier said than done with life commitments)?
    Thanks in advance
    ."

    Yes..he's at Sonoma...used to be Sears Point, and based on the web site, they have a kart track in the facility...just like NJMP has the kart facilities inside the Lightning course.
    I know exactly what I'm talking about.

    And again..he's asking which bike would be his best choice to get into mini track days at their kart facility.

    And for a beginner to minis....BOTH bikes are poor choices. In my EXPERIENCED opinion. I've watched videos of the layout of the Sonoma track..have you?

    A Yamaha TTR125 or a CRF125 or XR100 are better choices for an adult to start riding minis on a kart track.
    A Grom will also work, but from my EXPERIENCE it's not necessarily the best option.

    He will find doing the mini track days on the Sonoma kart track will give him drastic improvements when he goes back onto his 657R on his
    10 track days he averages per year. Mini days are just as fun as a regular track day, and cost a LOT less in tires, gas, and all the other expenses that
    come with track days on bikes 300cc and larger.

    You have little or no experience on a track (1 year doesn't make you much of an authority on anything but the flags), you don't even really know
    what you don't know at this point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
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  11. TurboBlew

    TurboBlew Registers Abusers

    youre equating letting the clutch out with "handling power"... congrats you just proved beyond a doubt youve never ridden a powerful bike. An avg mini makes ~10hp and maybe 4ft lbs or less vs a 250/300/400 that makes at least triple that.
    Your lesson learned today...its not the hp but the torque you should concern yourself with
     
  12. PistolPete

    PistolPete Gone sailing...

    First rule of the internets. If you’re new, and have a question about motorcycling/hiking/fishing, etc, don’t go on a motorcycling/hiking/fishing forum and post it. You’ll get very little actual advice, instead, you’ll watch all the “experts” turn on each other trying to best “advise” you. If a guy asks for opinions, why can’t those with the experience to offer one give it without others feeling the need to respond with their opinion as to why the other guys was wrong? I raced big bikes a number of years, have 5 expert #1 plates in my basement, but know fuck all about minis ( other than what I learned on the Clarence/RB threads), so I can’t advise the OP. What I do know, is that if either he or I showed up at a small track, and were offered any of the bike’s suggested for the day, we’d likely have a blast. For any of you feeling the need to explain to me why my “opinion” is also wrong, have at it...
     
  13. D-Zum

    D-Zum Alex’s Crew Chief

    You're WRONG Pete! LOL...you'd have TWO Blasts!! :p

    Hey the guy that wanted to get into a pissing contest with me didn't even actually understand what the qualifies as a mini and a kart track to begin with..so he's going to give advise?

    THAT's the root of the issue I take with his chiming in.
     
  14. dallen.helmer

    dallen.helmer Well-Known Member

    Must be a mini thing to be ignorant. I only ride Supersports so I wouldn't know.

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  15. SuddenBraking

    SuddenBraking Well-Known Member

    You learn more on the bikes that "can't hang". I'm much faster on either my 250 or 450 sumos at the kart track, but I ride better on my TTR 125 (currently on the disabled list).

    I much prefer mini track days. At NJMP, it's $65 and most days I'm the only one there. Regular track days kill me with a 40 minute break between sessions (almost two hours for lunch) and then red flags, etc. I think if I do any big bike track days this year (didn't last year), it's only going to be the VIP days at NJMP where it's just a hot track.
     
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  16. D-Zum

    D-Zum Alex’s Crew Chief

    [QUOTE="dallen.helmer, post: 5666176, member: 68745" I wouldn't know.

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    Exactly. That's the point. You have no basis or experience for any input to the OP's question.

    This is the WERA racing forum...I don't race with WERA...so when people post questions about racing with WERA, I don't offer anything to answer their questions
    because I have no basis of experience for an answer.

    You don't even know what ignorance is. Here's a clue. You're defining it.
     
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  17. TurboBlew

    TurboBlew Registers Abusers

    I noticed you didnt use "competent" any where around the verb ride...lol.
    Dont worry theres LOTS of folks out there that "ONLY" ride SS at intermediate pace to keep company with. Typically armed with footanchors and a whole catalog of sooperbike parts to highlight their superior skills. Hopefully you didnt waste any loot on lever guards... you seem like the type that can easily go around the outside of ANYONE cause the throttle is always on the stop! :D
     
  18. dallen.helmer

    dallen.helmer Well-Known Member

    Exactly. That's the point. You have no basis or experience for any input to the OP's question.

    This is the WERA racing forum...I don't race with WERA...so when people post questions about racing with WERA, I don't offer anything to answer their questions
    because I have no basis of experience for an answer.

    You don't even know what ignorance is. Here's a clue. You're defining it.[/QUOTE]I'm defining good advice while most of ya'll are trying to make him a pro fucking racer.

    "Mark Marquez started off on a mini so you have too"

    A 300 is a better big/small track weapon then a mini will be. Let me put this is caps since y'all only read what you want too.

    IF YOU HAVE THE FUCKING TRACK SIZE FOR IT.




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  19. dallen.helmer

    dallen.helmer Well-Known Member

    Nope quite the opposite I run a fully stock bike and I only fix rider error. Not the bike.

    Putting faster times down then most people with fully decked out bikes.

    98% of the time a rider can correct his ridding, parts won't fix that.

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  20. TurboBlew

    TurboBlew Registers Abusers

    been trying to lure my left coast friends over to the east for some mini schenanigans. Figure if all goes well at a typical track day you may get ~80 laps in a 2.5 hr span of track time. Minis is double that in a fraction of the time... most folks I brought to ride were done by noon. Can you turn 25 consecutive laps within a few 10ths of each other??? Not many can. :D
     
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