2019 MotoGP Changes - Biggest change ONE Helmet standard

Discussion in 'General' started by BigBird, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. In following up on the comment in the other thread about the FIM wanting harder shells more resistant to impact and puncturing, my first thought is the opposite should be more effective for preventing head injuries.

    All of us know brain damage occurs when the brain hits the inside of the head. A harder shell could absorb less impact, increasing the speed in which the floating brain slams against the inside of the skull.

    Unless their solution is 2-fold, and that is just part of it. If they want a harder outer shell more resistant to impact and puncturing, combined with new shock absorption standards/materials for slowing down the impact of the brain, then that is a different story.

    The helmet needs to be able to withstand the impact and not cave in or shatter, but aside from that its biggest purpose is to act like a shock absorber, or crumple zone. Imagine how hard the impact would be on the body if vehicles were made out of solid steel that couldn't absorb impacts. That is essentially what they are getting at here with wanting super hard shells.

    ...again, unless I am missing something.
    stk0308 and Prospect like this.
  2. stk0308

    stk0308 Well-Known Member

    Just echo'ing that sentiment.

    How many racing crashes have had actual helmet punctures? This doesn't seem like a statistically important thing.

    As has been mentioned, managing the speed in which the brain slows down would seem much more important. I'd hope they would put as much, or more, thought into that as "make the shell harder".
    Gorilla George likes this.
  3. stk0308

    stk0308 Well-Known Member

    A few secondary thoughts strike me, after really reading the press release. Who's doing this helmet testing/certifying? The FIM? Are they hiring out? Are they trusting the manufacturers?
  4. Prospect

    Prospect Hayai

    Agreed, one of the worst crashes we've seen is Simoncelli's and I don't recall the helmet being punctured, it was ripped off his head though, could that mean it was too big, did the D Ring system fail? Who knows.

    I echo Chaotic's thoughts, it would be great if they can integrate the technology to make the shells more impervious to punctures and at the same time allow for energy absorption to protect the brain and allow its gradual deceleration inside the skull. But if that can't be done because it seems like a paradox, then I would opt for a softer shell.
    Gorilla George likes this.
  5. Prospect

    Prospect Hayai

    IIRC, I was watching a BSB race or support race where one rider washed out and the the guy following him rode over his helmet with his back wheel which sent the bike jumping in the air. The guy got up like what's up bitches, all in a day's work It was an Arai Corsair. Not saying other reputable helmets would fare less but these things do have an effect on a person's psyche whether its seeing such an incident or experiencing first hand. I don't think helmets need to get any harder. I'll try to dig up the video.
  6. Monsterdood

    Monsterdood Well-Known Member

    Here’s @SPATT testing his helmet at the GNF. This was relatively slow speed in turn 5 but the dude running him over had used him as a berm first.


    In general I could see a racing standard having stiffer shells that hold up better to higher speed and higher energy accidents. They would create more risk of concussion at lower (street) speeds but might have benefits at 120mph+.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Prospect likes this.
  7. Prospect

    Prospect Hayai

    Found it:

    Again not saying other reputable helmets brands are not as good. But after seeing that, no one would blame me if I only stick to Corsairs..
  8. Prospect

    Prospect Hayai

    A letter from Wainwright to Arai:

    Dear Sir,

    Further to our earlier communication, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Arai for producing a quality helmet which i am convinced prevented me from sustaining any serious head injuries during my recent crash at Oulton Park on May 7th 2012.

    As can be seen on the television coverage of the National Superstock 600 race, I was leading a heated battle for the lead of the race at which point on lap 11, having overtaken a back marker i arrived at Druids and highsided off the bike. Due to the close proximity of the rider in 2nd place, he had no opportunity to avoid running over me on the track. The initial impact to the helmet was with the track, at which point i was knocked unconscious, closely followed by a second impact due to the following rider being launched due to riding over my head and upper body. Although attracting in excess of 150,000 youtube hits and live international television coverage, this is a marketing strategy i would like to avoid in the future!

    Following my removal to the Local Hospital it was discovered that i had sustained a cracked collar bone, two broken ribs and remarkably no head injuries, which i again can not express how thankful i am for your excellent safety equipment.

    Thank you for your continued support and i look forward to having the opportunity of meeting with you in the near future to thank you personally.

    Very Best Regards,

    Josh Wainwright
  9. Big T

    Big T Well-Known Member

    "Tell me what kind of crash you are going to have and I'll tell you which helmet to wear" Harry Hurt*

    Chris, you are correct. A softer helmet would provide better cushioning for the brain. One of the magazines did a drop test of various helmets and found that the softest helmet provided the most protection for the brain.

    But, that doesn't make it the best helmet for the track.

    * HH conducted the only comprehensive accident/helmet study to date. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurt_Report
  10. badmoon692008

    badmoon692008 Well-Known Member

    I carpooled with a decent sized group to Daytona this year, most of the guys I didn't know super well... It was scary how many of them were borrowing other peoples helmets just to go through tech because theirs were damaged or out of date...
  11. badmoon692008

    badmoon692008 Well-Known Member

    Airbag suits have been a requirement for a handful of years now...
  12. badmoon692008

    badmoon692008 Well-Known Member

    There's no way his hair didn't have something to do with it either.
    stk0308 likes this.
  13. rob linders

    rob linders Well-Known Member

    Wow, I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I am. If it were drag racing, I can more easily understand, but in roadracing, I figure every time out there is a decent chance of a crash.
    BigBird likes this.
  14. rabbit73

    rabbit73 Well-Known Member

    That's exactly what the progression of SNELL standards are supposed to do. They drop a big ass spike on the top of it to test punctures. Then they drop the helmet with a bowling ball inside to determine how much energy is transmitted to the rider. Every few years they drop the allowable force transmitted while maintaining or upping the shell hardness.
  15. Prospect

    Prospect Hayai

    That's great, looks like the FIM should hire them. But they won't, the FIM want to line their pockets up after all.
    I looked into SNELL standard graduation:

    This M2020 revision of the Snell Foundation standard for motorcycle helmets
    allows two distinct options: the first is a continuation of the requirements which had
    been set for M2010 and for M2015. It is designated M2020D indicating compatibility
    with DOT. It demands the premium levels of impact energy management currently
    required in M2015. The second incorporates modifications to the impact test
    requirements to accommodate the greater impact attenuation demanded by European
    standards. It is designated M2020R indicating compatibility with ECE Regulation 22..
    M2010 and M2015 had been considered the best protection motorcyclists
    might reasonably be expected to wear consistent with current technology and with the
    limits imposed by the US mandatory DOT standard (FMVSS 218). M2020D is intended
    to accommodate those helmet makers who have been successfully providing excellent
    protective helmets to motorcyclists in North America and Japan and wish to continue
    doing so.However, only a single helmet maker has been able to obtain European
    homologation for its Snell M2015 certified helmetswhile other manufacturers protest
    that they cannot produce helmets meeting Snell requirements which will also be
    eligible for use in Europe. Therefore, M2020R is formulated to identify helmets with a
    premium of protective performance in areas where ECE Regulation 22 homologation
    is required. It is hoped M2020R will also enable some reasonable compatibility with
    FIM FRHPhe-01 impact test requirements. The roll-back in test severity enables this
    M2020 Final – 16 August, 2018– compatibility but to assure compatibility, this
    standard will also impose a HIC criterionin the evaluation of the M2020R impact tests.
    Although the Snell Foundation’s directors firmly believe that HIC has little value in assessing helmet protective
    capability, its inclusion in ECE and FIM helmet standards dictate that a HIC criterion
    be included in M2020R in order to assess compatibility with these mandatory requirements. "

    From the big names, I noticed AGV, Shark, Nolan (XLite) are not in the list of certified helmets.
    Arai, Bell, HJC, Shoei and Scorpion are on the list.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  16. Shocker

    Shocker Well-Known Member

  17. tecknojoe

    tecknojoe Well-Known Member

  18. fastedyamaha

    fastedyamaha Well-Known Member

    Plus they have the most bad ass designs :crackup:
  19. BigBird

    BigBird blah


    Sent from my smatrfone
  20. noles19

    noles19 Well-Known Member

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