116,000 People..........

You've got a good point.

 

i'll be back shortly.........................


































ok, back. and more relaxed too.

 

I'm not sure why I'm so relaxed and sleepy myself. *yawn*

 

You're wrong Marcus. The acts above were a DIRECT result of greed, nothing more and nothing less.

 

Would it be possible to get my ticket validated?

 

Yes they would in a second only if they could.

We have the capability but yet we do not. Why is that. See the difference?

 

I don't see the scared America that Brad and Marcus do. I believe there were people back in New York city on Sept 12th, just like they are back on the beaches today.

I work in a very high profile building in Dallas. Probably the number 1 target in this city. I am no more scared of terrorists than I am a tornado. The building is full of workers, so they must not be scared either.

Mad yea, but not scared.

 

You are definitely right about greed. Greed by thousands of jackasses that did not read or listen to forecasts and reports by third parties. Greed by the schmoe making 35,000k a year that would sell his mother to make a few grand.

Greed drives a lot. The characteristics of what I mentioned are what push the accelerator pedal to the floor and lock the steering wheel in place. It takes hundreds of people within an organization to turn their head and ignore facts.

In Feb. 2000, I left Enron (Broadband) after I informed the VP of Operations that there was no way that the Broadband arm of the business would ever make a dime. At that time, Enron Broadband employees all knew that the video on demand/Blockbuster device literally burnt up. None of the IP/OSS prodcuts worked or looked like they could work. To my knowledge when I left Enron Broadband had maybe 14 actual customers and was driving less than 2($M) a year in actual revenue. To that date, Enron had spent 2.5($B) on their Broadband arm. EVERYONE in the broadband knew we had nothing that worked or was marketable. Instead of speaking up, they all sat there hoping their stock options would vest before the fall. Those are the people I find the most disgusting. Jim Fallon and Jeff Skilling are for sure scumbags, but I find it more bothersome that the hundreds/thousands of employees didn't do anything significant to change any of this. I also find it offensive the 1000's of people that held on to their investments and blame Enron for it. Employees should have bailed out at 40.00 a share, BUT DIDN'T. Independent investors should have bailed early, but you are right, the greedy dumbasses just hoped. Stupidity be damned. They will blame everyone but the person in the mirror.

Greed does indeed play a big factor...

Marcus McBain

 

Yeah that's right. For months after 9-11, people just couldn't wait to travel in a planes. The lined up so much so that several Airlines went bankrupt.

Mike, be honest rather than just making a microscopic point. 9-11 changed our entire internal and external policies and procedures. Our foriegn policy is now a "take it to them, before they bring it to us" strategy. Something the Israelis found that worked in the past.

I don't think you are being honest either. For about 6 months after 9-11, every time a plane went by my 44th story office window (within 1 mile, Hobby Airport is 10 miles from downtown Houston), I stopped what I was doing and made sure it wasn't headed our way. On the morning of 9-11, many of our trading floor was on the phone with people in the WTC as part of the normal work day (Dynegy Trading Floor) and listened to the scared voices, yells, screams, and dead silence that occured at various times. Some of our traders where telling the people in the 2nd WTC building to get out and that the plane slammed into the 1st building was suspected as not an accident.

Marcus

 

I remember making a 1.5 hour trip home that moring and searching the sky for planes that I feared would crash on my car.

That was then. We're over a lot of the post 9-11 trauma, although not all.

 

Marcus,

I don't like flying commercial anyways (the control thing). I thought about the planes I flew on crashing before 9-11. And I'm sure those people back on the beaches think about another Tidal Wave. But I flew as soon as the FAA would let us (my job requires it) and those people went back to the beaches.

The airlines didn't go bankrupt because of 9-11 either. That industry has had major problems for years before. 9-11 was just another blow to an industry with a screwed up cost structure. Oil prices and union issues have been a far bigger problem.

The terrorist can't take over America. They don't have armies to do that. All they can do is scare people. We have to decide if we will let them. Or let our fear make poor foreign policy decisions for us.

Mike

PS: wish I could ride at the Hill with y'all this weekend. Sunday looks like a great day!

 

I find this hard to believe.
I dont know anything about you Jeff but let me ask you this (God forbid) if a drunk driver took out your _____________ (< fill in with any loved one) your saying you would feel no different about their death than say if that same person died in some sort of natural manner (ie. drowned, fell asleep & drove off the road causing their own death, struck by lightening, etc...)???

I find THAT very hard to believe!

I absolutely agree that a 'loss of life' is a very hard thing to go through, maybe that was the crux of your original post when you tried to make the comparison.
However, I truly believe the 'cause' of said death is where a person's grief can be multiplied greatly and your kidding yourself if you dont think it matters. It absolutely matters.

I kind of wish you did!

Really, what scale are you using? And how are you qualified to say so?

Wow and for over a year we've been hearing the complete opposite from the left where have you been?

You call 100,000 - 1,000,000 a reasonable guess? LOL Where are you getting these numbers anyhow? any links?
Have you ever been in that region?
I ask because I havent, is civilization (government, schools, hospitals, businesses, housing) there on the same footing as our country since your making the comparison?

As far as relief and aid, they may not have their own but the calvalry is coming and they KNOW it. Who have we ever turned our backs on?
Now let me ask you this, the US has had several disasters of our own, has any of those countries provided us with any form relief?

It almost sounds to me like your saying their lives have more value than ours.

 

Marcus, I lived 1/4 mile away from the Pentagon, watched it burn from my balcony. I worked 2 miles away, flew airlines 2-4 times a week, overflying the Pentagon every time we took off to the north and getting a visual reminder. I never thought for a second of being scared or changing my way of life. 9/11 didn't scare everyone. Everyone does not react the same way to every situation. You went to Iraq/Kuweit: THAT, I probably would have been too scared to even consider.

Airlines were doomed before 9/11. It only compressed time and precipitated an unavoidable situation. See Mike Wright's post.

 

Comparing these two events means finding a way to rank them. Which, intended or not, has the effect of trivializing one or the other.

And offending somebody in a big way.

 

As Director of global communications for Dynegy, I flew 5-7 times a month between Denver and Houston and points in between before 9-11. The company basically cancelled all travel for the next 30 days without officer sign off. I believe that all together that would have been about 500 employee flights at 300.00 per head. That would be 150,000.00 in one month from one company.

The majority of the people I talked to and worked with would not comment or tell you they feel even slightly the way you do.

Official Dead Horse subject now...

Marcus

 

It bears repeating:

 

Even if you watch foxnews (sic) you'll see that these numbers are well w/in the estimates

Yep, a month each in Thailand and Indonesia, and several more months in other parts of Asia and other developing nations.

Not even close. I don't even know where to start on describing the difference. Most people in rural parts of Asia (even the tourist areas) are truly scratching out a living.

Thailand was doing OK.. all the kids go to school, most people seemed pretty healthy. Parts of Indonesia were worse, there is some true squalor there.. not Calcutta squalor, but still.

OK, you're kidding right? It took us a week to commit real money, and move significant resources. It took a day and a half to get our leader away from vacation. Admittedly, he's not the only world leader to fail to get the ball moving, but he is the most important one.

Now, as to who we've ever turned our backs on... the list is long. How many genocides have we watched and done nothing about? Congo, Cambodia, Angola, etc. We sure didn't go into WWII to stop the holocaust, we simply went for economic reasons (I know, it is a bit more complicated than that.)

I don't pretend that we're an evil nation, or worse than many other countries. But if you believe that we have some moral or ethical superiority, you are mistaken, and you are sadly in the majority in this country.

Pete

 

So, basically, even though the US was the first, fastest and most generous responder, because we took the time to actually send people over there to help and see what was needed we were slow to respond?
Here's another clue for you, the President is never on vacation. He takes the White House with him.
You're also saying that the US should prosecute evil dictators in sovereign nations.
Casby and Robert will be along soon to agree and disagree with you.