2002 Clubman Rules proposal.

I geuss I'm a little biased as well, I ride an aprilia and an ex.
The two chances I got to race this year (southeast novice ) the d-super and clubman grids weren't much different in size. About 12 to 15 bikes I think, but sorta small.
Maybe both classes would grow if clubman allowed all d super machines except the sv.
I still think guys just starting out and on a really tight budget should have a place to be competetive. But I think ss ex and gs can run V5 now so maybe they do have a place.
Anyways I'm going back to lurk mode, I'm much better at that.

 

How about allowing Superbike EXs & GSs in V5?

Many of us have worked hard to build a bike that runs strong in the current Clubman rules. A good example is the fine piece of work that Charlie VanValkenburg rides. I like the idea of the Duc's and Hawks being allowed in SS trim because they seem to run comparable times, but the Aprilia's are tough machines to compete with. I've raced Kyle on his modern EX and his Aprilia , and his Aprilia is in a different league than the EX.

Back to my original point, what do the V5 & EX/GS guys think about this? Perhaps a cc limit so that the big-bore EXs don't show up would be a good idea.

. . . my two cents.

Jon

 

I'd like to see the rules stay about the same for Clubman...I had fun this year...I feel like I'm finally getting my EX to be competitive. I definitely think its probably the cheapest class for anyone to get started in and thats important when you're on "wife-monitored" budget. I'll agree that it would be nice to see more entries in the class...maybe figure out some way to get the manufacturers to offer a little more contingency $$?

When does WERA typically announce any rule changes for the upcoming year?

 

After watching this thread the last few days, I feel compelled to respond. As far as dispacement goes, isn't the limit for lc twins 599cc? Do you really think an extra 6cc's will make a difference? In '99, ccs changed the rules in lightweight sportsman, limiting ex's to 501ccs. Frank Strohman(if you don't know him, he is THE ex guy) built a 501 motor to comply w/ the new rules and it made the same hp as his 599 motor.(he did lose some midrange) We're talking 80+hp!!! If you want to spend the $$$,(and I mean A LOT of $$$$!!!!) he would love to build one for you. If you can't win clubman on an 80+ hp ex, well, maybe you should try golf!
As for the grey-market 2-strokes, I've always been a little confused. All except the ape are legal in ss trim only. I guess the ape got picked on because the cup bikes have a few changes from the street versions making them a little bit more powerfull. I'm not so sure that ANY of these bikes belong in clubman. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most of the 250's make around 60 hp? All that and they have a gp-derived chassis, light weight, great brakes, yada, yada, yada... At least wera is trying to limit them to ss only.
Then we have hawks and ducs that are now alowed in ss trim only. Again, great idea IF the bikes are ss. For those of you that didn't race in the pre-sv era, these are all bikes that were the bike to beat in d-super two years ago. I'm all for trying to increase grid sizes and giving people a place to be competitive, but all of this "in ss trim" $hit makes life alot harder for wera, the tech inspectors and especially, the guys running "real" clubman bikes. Werajedi(hi john!) has the right idea, you can't rely on wera or the tech inspectors to "weed out" the illegal bikes. Bring your protest money if you're serious about winning.
As for the guys wanting to run in v5, do any of you even look at the vintage bbs? We've had a thread(vitage in the future) going for the last two months where we've been discussing potential class changes. There has been A LOT of discussion about v5 and v6 especially. Put your .02 in there. There will be a vintage rules meeting on wed. at the gnf. PLEASE attend and voice your opinion. As the defending v5 nat. champ., I'd love to see more bikes in the class, ESPECIALLY superbike gs's and ex's! SPEAK UP!!!!!!
My final point will be the one that pisses everyone off, but it must be said. Shut up and ride harder! I've raced my rz in clubman for the last 7 yrs and there is ALWAYS someone out there w/ a faster bike.(this applys to all classes) It's up to you to make up the difference. This year, I've been running mostly vintage only, but after hearing all of the bitching about "that cheater ducati", I ran clubman at cmp and lost the race by 2 bike lengths. Oh, yeah, my rz was sick that weekend, so I was riding my formula rd-spec(52hp) '73 rd350! I'm not trying to blow my own horn, just that it's not all about the bike! If someone beats you, maybe they were riding better than you were! Push yourselves to the next level!
Let the hate mail begin....

 

=====>Simple mathematical problem. My motor doesn't come in a 599 size. I can assemble it with existing parts as a 490, 602, or 646. The 646 isn't working, and I really don't wanna have some squirrel get me DQ'ed for 2cc. I actually agree with most of you..... 2cc doesn't make a difference. It's rider, not equipment.



[This message has been edited by WFF (edited 10-02-2001).]

 

Hey Mark,

Well put, IMO. It's very hard to accept that someone may have beat you with better riding and it's easier to just say it was the other guys bike. This is the main reason I've been racing Skorpion Cup with AHRMA over the last 2 years. The bikes are all very equal (not enough money to have any real cheating) and it hurts my ego when I get beat but it motivates me to work on my riding not buy go fast parts.

I hope to ride with WERA again in 2002 since my plan is to attend all the WERA (and CCS, AHRMA, etc) events at VIR and CMP (burnt out from all the travel this year, over 10,000 miles). I'll probably get my butt kicked in clubman but it should be fun anyway

Bruce

 

No hate mail from me Mark. I'm behind you 100%.

It really isn't the bike!

 

TZRs, NSRs, and RGVs are and have been legal for clubman in SS trim for some time. The argument is that the Aprilia should also be legal, especially since it makes less HP than a late model RGV.

Yours is the oddball region (I didn't look at SE... it was at the bottom of the list, I stopped before I got there sorry). You definatly had more clubman novices on average than the other regions.

- Roach

 

Hi Mark. I agree 100% with 'ya (big surprise). I'm getting caught up w/$$ recovery mode, & 2002's gonna be fun. I'll probably run the GS in V5 & LWT, but I'm pickin' up an FZ FORMULA bike for clubman & D super. My mind is in a much better way these days, & once I get back up to speed (EBRS days, yay!) well, I'm really looking forward to hounding you. I think a bunch of the SV riders in D super are in for a shock, too.
Clubman is a great place to learn RACECRAFT. It shouldn't cost an arm & leg to be clubman competitive, & would, IMO, help new, interested riders try racing without the significant financial burden. A new racer who has to buy ALL his race gear AND ALL the support gear AND the basic racing expenses (travel, entries/license, etc) shouldn't have to drop $6K for a competitive bike as well. Sure, all you degree'd, $40k+/year earners can swing it, but it's virtually impossible for an average hourly guy to even try racing. Scott Russell was working in a Louisiana envelope-factory when his friends took him racing. Rich Conicelli was an Air Force E-4 when the Ludwigsen family took him racing. Many enthusiasts need an affordable way to try club-racing.
I would support a post-GNF claiming rule of, say, $3500 for the bike. WERA is THE grass-roots organization in the U.S, it needs a grass-roots class.

John Sabbe
WERA EX #789

P.S Very special thanks for the Taps, Mark, I haven't been moved like that since I buried my Commander & his crew.

 

=====>Ok, now back to our original program.

Does anyone strongly object to 605cc in Clubman for liquid cooled twins?

 

605 cc fer EX's? No objection at all.

[This message has been edited by werajedi (edited 10-02-2001).]

 

605cc....why not 597cc ? Run what ya brung I say. Line em up cause I think next years Clumban EX and NV class will be a good one-the more the merrier!!

 

No problemo w/ 605, or any larger displacement. I think after 550 or so, reliability(translation:how much $$ you have to spend to keep the pin in the grenade) starts to keep things in check. Frank told me that he had to put a new crank in every 3 weekends! (how much does that cost?!?)
Why don't some of you people try an rz? You can find very competitive bikes in the $3k price range. Parts/maintenence are WAY cheaper than gp(or grey market) bikes and who can resist the wail of a 2-stroke twin at 11k rpm? I can run my rz for an entire season on less than what it takes to build an ex up to competitive hp.

Mark "I never met a kawasaki I could trust" Morrow

 

Ah, grasshopper.....
If I recall, the season is about 10-12 races. Thats 3 cranks...mucho dinero$$. I think that WFF is the guy who had an EX that was drafting RC51s at Texas World.
And...two-strokes scare me.

 

Good, I happen to like it the way it is, but still don't understand why the rgv is legal and the aprilia is not. But it's sort of a non factor since nobody seems to be racing the rgvs.
Back to lurking

 

so if you get the 646 sorted out you want to change it to 646 right.

 

In response to all of the comments in order:

Correct. It's THAT EX.

If the motor starts snapping $2600 Falicon billet cranks, I'll quit early.

I think the 650 class is called D-Super.

 

If the motor starts snapping $2600 Falicon billet cranks, I'll quit early.

When Frank told me about his rebuild schedual, I think he was using stock cranks, modified by falicon, not the billet ones. I wouldn't be surprised if 80+hp broke the billet cranks too, though it would probably take longer than 3 weekends.
Not to sound like Tracee, but do you guys (and gals) think I should run clubman this year at the gnf? I have a very realistsic chance of winning 2 vintage championships and clubman is always run before the v5 and f-2stroke races. Last year I ran it w/ a skirt and finished 4th. Should I risk it?


Mark "stay on the yamaha until the Kaws come home" Morrow