Sportsman Endurance

WERA_16: The way the purse used to be for the 2-hour races was 50% of whatever entry fees were collected were paid out as purse money. So the more entries, the higher the prize money. I think they paid out the top 3 positions in each of three classes-no expert or novice distinction. Is my memory holding up Sean? We are not talking a lot of money in any case. As to number of riders, usually teams have 2 for a 2hr. I'm just saying some of us track pigs like to have the option of running solo.

 

Sounds like a great idea, just get the specs worked out and I'm there. Hey Tracee I'll ride with ya if you need a rider, I'll even put the EX up as a reserve bike. Hey get tommy and you got a four man team for a two hour race. 30 min segments for each guy equals 2 hours.

 

This new endurance thing sounds pretty good, but should be run only at a few special events. The problem that I see with eliminating the Solos is this. By eliminating the solos, the only outlet for newbies to gain track time is racing with HW, MW, LW bikes novice and expert all thrown together for 2 hours. Talk about getting thrown to the wolves. The track time being used to learn how to race would be replaced by trying to stay out of the way of the fast experts. At least in the National Endurace Series they are all experts and know how to ride. It is not only about the newbies, I've been taken out by a newbie while leading the race...it's not fun. At least with the solos, you can ride without a team, ride for 20 laps instead of xx laps in the middle of summer and can have a chance of matching lap times since you are on the same machines. Basically: newbie (Ex500) + expert (R1)=FUBAR

 

Good points....So, since the National Endurance series already has the HW/MW classes....why not make a 2-hr regional Endurance event a LW Only class..?? (say all the ones currently eleigible to run in LW Solo20). Could serve multiple purpose(s) 1-give newbies a chance at some extended track time, and 2) lets those of us who prefer LW class bikes a chance to do some endurance racing.
Certainly don't have a problem with putting Nov/Exp on the same track - Hell, they _already_ do that.........But yeah, you're right - R1's and GS500's in the same race could get a little dicey!

 

In response to the National Endurance series being "all experts" my team just started racing last year in that series and prior to last year one of my two teammates had raced about 2 or 3 sprint races a couple of years ago and the other two of us hadn't even been on a race track until our Ed Bargy school last March. We had basically no trouble with getting ran over by "experts" most of them give you plenty of room, or at least as much as they can. As long as you don't panic when being overtaken by a faster rider there won't be a problem. Those "experts" don't want to run into you, they want the cleanest, quickest way around you without contact. Imagine how silly they'd look getting tangled up and crashing with a rider who is turning 5 second slower laps. The only time there was contact between our bike an another was during a 750 novice practice at the Dixie Cycle Jam (not even an endurance practice and all novicies), all either of us suffered was some scratched paint. We ran 6 of the 10 races in last year's series and we loved every minute of it. You can't beat it bang for the buck hands down. It's a great chance to get to ride with faster riders and learn from them and you get long enough track stints (i.e. a full tank of gas) to experiment with lines, braking, etc. before you have to come in and pit. For most novices a set of tires will last a whole 4 hour race at most tracks and even 6 hours at some. When you divide the cost of entry fees and tires between two or three teammates, the financial burden is much easier to bear. I would invite anyone who has ever thought about endurance racing to give it a try. I'm hooked.

The sportsman endurance races sound like a great idea to me. It would be a great way for guys to get their feet wet in endurance racing before jumping straight in to the big series and also a way for some of the endurance regulars to get some additional endurance type track time on their off weekends.

I would suggest:
-2 hour races
-2 riders max, only one rider ok
-no mandatory pitstops, I don't see why
that would be necessary
-don't do away with Solos if possible
some people show up just for them
-the HW, MW, LW rule sounds cool, gives
LW guys a chance to get in on the fun.

Shannon Huffman
DRS Racing
Nat. Endurance #73

 

Shannon has pretty much the idea that we're working on - run it like the nationals (makes it easier since the rules are already written). Run a LW class, and run a limited schedule of Solo 20's. The problem now is doing all of this and the Vintage races.... Anyone mind racing til 7 or 8 on Saturday evenings?

I don't know where we are on the purse, we might be able to do a 50% deal but we'll have to look at entry fees etc. It might be better to keep the fees down with no purse than to raise fees and have a purse - any opinions on that one? We'll also try and hit up local sponsors for cash for a purse as well although that may mean different payouts for different regions. Also, our original thinking was to try 2 in each region in 00 and see what the response was.

Okay - opinion time - fire away!

 

I still like the idea of extended competition track time. The idea of this class should be a stepping stone into the Nat'l endurance series. I think it should be kept solo. Similar to what one stint would be in a full 4, 6 or 8hr. This will give those of us that have never ridden endurance to feel what it would be like to be on the track that long.

Personally, I would like to be on the track with more experienced riders and faster bikes. What better environment to gain experience?

 

Just heard about the 2 hour regional deal. I like the two hour format but would like the option of riding one rider. Maybe there could be a mandatory pit stop rule so two man teams could switch riders and single riders could get rest and fuel. On the other hand 1 hour races might be better then we could devide it into HW,MW,LW and have three seperate races. Maybe I'm just stengy with my bike but letting someone else ride her would like sharing my woman. Sean, what ever you decide please don't leave out the LW guys.

 

The LW guys won't be left out. As I said it would probably use the National rules which would mean that one rider would be fine. I doubt we'd do mandatory pit stops right now, too much trouble and most people will be forced to do them by virtue of fuel mileage - there's not a stock tank out there that will run 2hrs. Most go right at 1 Hour which is aboout perfect timing for a small break for most riders, if nothing else you can stretch oyur legs while the bike is getting refueled. The only bikes I can see going two full hours with no stops are the National teams getting some track time and even they will probably use it to practice pit stops.

One other consideration is scorers... It's very, very hard to keep track (at least keep track correctly) by using our sprint scoring setup so we may have to require scorers.

 

Can we not use the transponders for the regional endurances?

 

Hey LW guys, don't forget that you can enter a National Endurance race now. You'll just have to run in Mediumweight classes against mediumweight bikes. There was an EX500 in the 24 hour last season.

Hey Sean, what do you think about adding a LW class to the National Endurance Series? Yeah, it may be a safety concern at the start, but after everyone does a couple with the LW bikes out there it will be back to busy as usual. I've seen other racing organizations allow LW bikes with Prov. Nov riders in the same endurance race with very fast guys on very fast bikes.

 

It's a sure bet that he will.
I'd bet money on it, but I sure wouldn't put my bike on the line.

 

Well I think all of these are good idea in every aspect. I think what should be done is to take all of these and just take a vote or get a general census of what people would like to see. WERA could post a form online and let us select what format we would like to see. Example being choose 1 hour format or 2 hour format, 1 rider min, 2 rider min, or 4 rider max etc....get the picture. You would of course need to take a same type of poll at say the first couple of races that way you cover the people that don't have internet access. Your never going to please everyone but you can get close. Hey WERA/Shawn I'll even lend my web development knowledge since that's what I do for a job, for say.....the price of a couple of entry fees

 

We nuked the National LW class many years ago due to participation (the last year we only had 1 team run all the races). Maybe if it takes off in the regionals we'll try it for 2001 in the Nationals.

PN's in the Nationals is a definite no-no, too much on the line for some of the teams for them to get taken out by a panicky rider during his first or second race ever. In the regionals - probably yes since there won't be as much on the line people will probably take it easier.

Poll on a web site thing - thanks but the boss considers all web stuff to be my job and she already gives me a paycheck so any barter deals in that area are not likely The other problem is that there is only a small percentage of our riders online so the best pll is at te riders meetings or just try it and see if people like it.

Transponders - not likely. We have only the one system and I don't let it out of my sight right now... Well, actually the reason is that we will most likely run regionals at more than one track on any given weekend and as I said - we only have one system. That and the 2hrs will give people a great place to learn the scoring thing since we'll still use it at the nationals as a backup to the puters.

Next idea/question - What about using the Nationals as a round of the regional series? Assuming of course we actually set up for a regional champ...

 

Thank you for thinking of us Sean! I've been keeping track of the "2hour endurance" chat and will agree it's a great idea. Although I would never run such an event (my catheter bag is usually full after only 30 minutes of track time), it would be fun to watch. I am concerned, though, as to when you guys intend to run these events.

"Hey Franklin! I think we're gonna get shipped off to a 'Home'. We're too much of a bother and are in the way!"

 

Don't worry, the Vintage races will run on the weekends scheduled. If we change anything it will be worked in around what we already have. We'd nuke a Solo 20 or two first.

I know it may not always seem like it but the Vintage racers and the guys that run the modern bikes are all the same as far as we're concerned. WERA runs a lot of classes with a lot of differnt rules and they all get equal consideration.

 

There appear to be alot more potbellies in Vintage racing.

If it comes to a choice between Solo 20's and a 2 hr endurance, then I'm all for keeping the Solo 20's. Me thinks the Solo's are more accessable to more people. I don't think as many people will have the resources/teammates/scorer's/etc to do a 2 hr.

The solo's seem pretty popular, AND they give the vintage guys time to put oil back in their bikes and load up on Fritos.

 

I think that I'm going to have to disagree with you there Alienator. I think that the 2-hour endurance is great because it gives track-time to the slower guys and we all know, and I hope that everyone agree's, that with more track time, the better the competition.

I'm not ribbin' any of the faster guys because they have earned their podium rights, but I would love to see some challenges out there besides the same Sorenson's and Selbert's going at i round for round.

Again, here's my two cents. I would rather pay money for two hours of track time and learn something by being able to pace myself, and watch other (note: faster riders) and knock off seconds than have an all out frenzy where I piss my money away and only get 30-45 min of time.

I'm all for the endurance, from a learner's point of view.

 

I'll tell Jim you said that. Seriously I vote for 2 hours, three displacement classes, allow the formula guys, but separate Expert and Novice. The novices get to feel what its like to run with the Experts but aren't just donating their entry fees to the experts' tire budgets and beer fund. Oh yeah have some kind of purse so you have something to show for your efforts. Two hours is not really that tough for one guy but most teams would probably want two riders, just to keep expenses in line. Isn't it neat to think about this stuff while there is six inches of snow on the ground?

 

Lol... it's an inevitable side-effect of having to swallow the crap you guys dish out.

Only if time would allow! Usually we're too busy breaking up your "pokemon trading card" slap-fights.
;-)