Endurance 2024. Open discussion..

I don’t believe it is all about who has the resources to build bigger tanks. You also need to have riders that can do long consistent stints on the bike.

 

Very true, and that is part of the strategy involved with endurance. Even though we had the capability to do 80 minutes on our bike, we chose to do 1 hour stints on a softer rear tire.

 

At Pitt race this year the boards and flags were moved up and down pit lane to different locations depending on if it was the racer practice day, morning practice or the actual race. One had no idea where to look. At least keep it simple for us assholes.

 

I went back and looked it up:

Heavyweight Team Entries (ran at least one round)

2023 - 12
2022 - 10
2021 - 8

If you look at total Heavyweight race entries over the seasons you get:

2023 - 23
2022 - 27
2021 - 21


The reintroduction of Supersport classes would allow people who want to run stock calipers, stock engines, stock airboxes, stock triple trees, stock sub-frames, stock axles, stock forks and stock tanks. I'm in favor of the resurrection of those classes to encourage that participation. I think that is a much better way to do it than the Relay class*.

Honestly, I'd restrict supersport to stock ECUs and stock wiring harnesses as well because supersport racing should be showroom bikes, not "with our optional PITA $4,000 upgrade" bikes. Then maybe the manufacturers would try to make better bikes rather than spending their money lobbying sanctioning bodies to tilt the rules/ECU maps in their favor.





*the abomination

 

I meant HW teams that ran the full season (which earlier you said it was 2) not total teams that raced throughout the season. I'd be surprised if more than a couple of those other 21 teams had tanks that were bigger than 24L

I don't think the supersport class is the way to go as it would just thin out the herd in some of the classes, besides, I don't see any "real" superbikes out there. I get you guys have a tank that is massive and this suggestion isn't to single you guys out. The N2/BHM team has a tank that is bigger than 24L so it would affect us too. I believe it would be better racing if capacity is limited, there would be more strategy involved, lap times could potentially be faster, and it would align with what every other endurance org is doing. It would also align with the 24L capacity that Motoamerica Superbikes allow.

 

So tell us how you really feel about the relay class...

 

The race strategy would just be different. It wouldn't be more or less. AOD won a single race in 2022. N2 won two, TSR won two. That all seems like good racing.

Faster laps time from the heavyweights would seems counter productive to the closing speeds with the slower lightweights.

Alignment with Motoamerica seems kinda pointless in and off itself. Are we going to change middleweight to Next Gen Supersport rules?

Our big tank didn't help us win any races in 2023. The races were all shortened and we took the same pits stops as any top team.

That all said...

I might have misunderstood the intent of the notional gas tank rule change. I assumed it was to increase participation because some notional people would be able to buy pre-built Japanese tank tanks instead of having to learn to weld or have a buddy weld one up.

If that is the intent, can you introduce me to two people who have not run endurance in the past two years, and who are willing to put $60,000 in escrow to spend on endurance racing, but only if tanks are restricted to 24 liters?

Next year the series is rumored to have 4 heavyweights with the current rules. Who are these people that would be teams 5 and 6, but only if we restrict fuel tanks to 24l?

Supersport classes would allow for competitive racing between people who want less expensive race bikes. I'd get rid of Relay* for MSSS and HWSS and I think we'd end up with more race entries by the end of the year, assuming interest rates don't go to 6%

On a personal note: How are you healing up? You gave us all a scare!






*the abomination

 

How about getting rid of the three big bike classes and run a 800cc limit, run-whatcha- brung endurance race and race for overall only? Approximate same purse could pay down to 16th overall or so, something like this:

100+200+300+400+500+600
+700+800+900+1,000+1,250
+1,500+1,750+2,000+3,000
+5,000=20000

 

Kinda curious now that the ULW bikes are pushing past 400 with the RS457 and SS450 where those bikes would end up, if anywhere, on the endurance grid. Been looking at a 400 for next season, but wondering if the ninja will still be top dog.

 

Any thoughts on rain lights? With the disparity in speed between classes, it can scary in the wet with low visibility.

 

I don't think people care about AoD's tank nearly as much as y'all's fucking generator.

 

I went so far as to buy a new inverter one this summer but with all the integrated safety stuff it would only run for five seconds.

:|

 

You're not wrong about that...it's definitely the "caution: coffee is hot" warning label for inverters these days. Have known several people have issues when the wind blows the wrong way (literally) and pushes the exhaust into the CO detector and causes it to shut off. Easy enough to bypass though

 

My selfish input

1. If Roebling stays on the calendar, schedule it earlier or later in the year to try for some cooler temps
2. add a mid-west round

 

Just an outsider looking in.

I'm in favor of a tank size limitation. How can one team compete with another if , one can run 50 laps on a tank, but the others run 35-40?


Could it be done by class?
Ex..HW 24L
MW 22L
LW 20L

Those are just generic numbers for the conversation.
Level the bike playing field somehow, give it more of a team strategy to the endurance.

Any thoughts on a Mid-Ohio round?

 

The tank argument is stupid. There's not enough bikes on the grid already. The lack of entries is not because of tank size limitation. If there were 30+ entries in each class already, and 25 of them had stock tanks...ok, maybe that argument carries some merit.

 

Couldn't agree more. It seems like you guys are looking too detailed at the rules. As far as I've seen, a lot of people run Relay because they don't need all the pit equipment and can run their own bikes; not because of some competitive aspect of stock vs superbike rules and tank sizes.

If you want more people to get into endurance, make a "New Team Guidebook". Provide plenty of guidance and encourage new teams joining. I wish I had known we could have gotten a dry-break filler for our stock gas cap, but didn't find that out until Barber. My team learned most stuff from trial and error in our first year. If we had more information at the beginning of the year, a lot of frustration would have been eliminated.

That's seems more effective than detailed rule changes in my opinion.

We really need some kind of market research.

 

Yup. It's just funny to see the HWT teams comment about enlarged gas tanks as if that's the stopping point for HWT (and MWT). Casually glancing over the fact that you're at $25k to have a somewhat competitive HWT platform that is capable...and that's assuming you start off with a used bike. Quick change front and rear, a few sets of wheels and you're easily there.

AoD has to have over $60k between two brand new R1's and equipment* and everything that went into them. What makes them successful is having a dedicated core crew of peeps that keep the program running on the back end, putting in 95% of the work it takes to have a winning endurance team. Then they bring in random ringer riders to do the last 5% of what it takes to win.

It's weird to see familiar names continually bring up the tank issue, because I know most everyone and I know you all know better.

Rhetorical question, but you know what's stopping people? Having a shared bike. The grid is filled with us mere mortals, with mortal riding and, more importantly, mortal financial capabilities. So the idea of someone fronting their pride and joy to roger up for endurance racing with the chance someone else can kartwheel it...

I still don't know why the hate for the relay class. Entries drive the success of the endurance series. I'd venture to say the relay class is doing more to help the series than most care to admit. So now you introduce an option that requires next to zero logistics for a group of friends to participate in the series, with zero worry about wadding up your friends bike. That's the reason it's successful. The relay class is not "stealing" endurance class entries...that's some Mongo logic of "Track days steal club racing business".



*Shitty fucking generator