MotoAmerica | 2022 | Round 3 | Michelin Raceway Road Atlanta | Braselton | April 22 - 24

Dear Fast By Kids,
I don’t know you. I don’t know your kids. But, and with all due respect, I do know that you and they are simply not good enough or fast enough to compete with the fastest riders in Jr Cup.
By continuing to say that the only reason your kids are not in the mix is solely due to a purely imaginary mechanical advantage, one that is beyond your feeble budget, only serves to denigrate the efforts and sacrifices that those riders and families have made to get where they are. Efforts and sacrifices that you are unable or unwilling to make yourself so you sit on the sidelines and snipe at them with implications of cheating. It’s insulting. Your incessant insistence that those at the pointy end of Jr Cup are only there because they have more horsepower after pouring piles of cash into their engines, not only makes you look petty, but ignorant as well of what actually makes racers at that level fast.
If you don’t want to put the time money and effort into your kids’ program to run at a professional level, don’t. But stop impugning those who do. Stop belittling the efforts and training that those kids have put in to understand how top make a slow bike look fast.

 

Well said!

Sadly, it will fall on deaf ears.

 

That right there was a brilliant display of diplomacy.

Which is as useless as calling him a cunt. But calling him a cunt is much more satisfying.

 

Spot on and way nicer than I could have come up with.

there’s always guys that immediately want to claim disadvantage and the playing field isn’t level.

club racing or pro racing, follow the rule book.

nobody is holding you back but yourself and your losing attitude.

 

The poor kids....

 

You are right, you don't know me. However I disagree about your assessment on my kids talent. Insult me all you want, don't really care.

I've not called anyone a cheater. Just simply I refuse to constantly crack engines and do what it takes to create a podium bike in a entry level stock class. As a matter of fact our modest builds would be immediately protested because we use a GSXR shock. Works great for us but uses a bracket to increase height.

There was a challenge of posting a dyno numbers and curve that wasn't accepted. If "nothing can be done" to the engines then lets compare. Should be close, apples to apples? Right? That goes to anyone whom is currently in Jr Cup whom is "insulted" by my posts. I've been 100% transparent with our charts and is available in this thread. It's all about the talent of rider, right? I'll shut up and personally apologize to ANYONE whom has been "offended".

The past three years there has been major drama IN THAT CLASS with protests and allegations. THAT IS FACT. In this thread alone someone quoted a actual race team about engines from the last race. So keep on keeping on attacking me, don't really care. It's actually been a enlightening conversation and learned a few things.

 

They aren't poor. And I don't appreciate your comment. Attack me, keep them out of it. In the grand scheme of things they are blessed to have the opportunities they do.

Thank you!

 

Agreed. IMO, even in a spec class, preparing/setting up a motorcycle within the rules has always been a major factor in winning.

The difference between the person who wins and everyone else that finishes behind them is that the winner was simply willing to do more of something than everyone else. It could be many things (Training, taking a greater risk, preparation, practice, and yes, even spending more money, etc,) or only one more thing, but there is always something that they had to do. I don't know why this is so hard for some racers or parents to accept or understand.

 

Protests and allegations.

What were the results of the protests?

 

As much as you want it to be "all about the talent of the rider" it is not. You have to have a team with a winning mindset to support the rider. You have clearly stated that you do not have the willingness to do what it takes to win in Jr Cup. If you believe that you can't win without something that someone else has, it has at least two results: You won't win because you believe it, and when you complain about it, you reveal your jealousy of other who have put more effort into winning than you.

And MA Junior cup is not an entry level class in the purest sense. No one that I know of has started racing in Junior cup with no prior racing experience. It may be an entry into professional racing but that also means that a rider and team has to step up to professional level effort in order to win.

Not that I think that any of what I said will change your mind one bit, but look at yourself before complaining about others.

 

https://www.russell-clark.com/p/the-economics-of-karting?s=r

I posted this in the investment thread but it all of a sudden seems relevant here. Careful what you wish for in a “spec” class Sir Fast

 

It's been a open discussion on what it takes to be on the podium. Others have learned this the hard way and are no longer on the grid. Or might not be on the grid much longer / next year. Call it complaining and jealousy but I see examples of what needs to be done and the costs associated to it. Anyone whom thinks they can make a run should read this thread. Great information has been communicated. Yes, I have glaring gaps in our modest program. As I've stated, we are a Club team with our current resources. On my end I have not called ANYONE a cheater or used personal attacks towards anyone. Hopefully a few of you can stay classy.

Wayne Rainey initial vision of the class is very public.

We had dim hopes of a MA run, but as has been presented, our program doesn't have what it takes. It's a reflection on ME other than "others".

 

Gus's motor has been opened 3 times, once at the beginning of his first (partial) season, once before his second season (also partial due to his injury) and once before this season. It has never been opened during a season. If you are under the impression that you need budget for frequent rebuilds you are misinformed, the 400 motor is robust enough to tolerate a full season of racing provided it is maintained with frequent oil changes.

If you are referring to me regarding the dyno charts, I explained the reason why I couldn't post them, to repeat it's not my bike and I don't own the team. But comparing dyno charts is a bit like comparing penises, but less accurate. The Superflow Cycledyn dyno that we used when we worked exclusively on motorcycles was located at +4 above sea level in NJ, so the numbers that it produced needed to be interpreted carefully before comparing to another dyno located elsewhere. The other factor that must be considered when comparing dyno charts is the weather and atmospheric conditions at the time of the run. And the tire used including the tire pressure. And the chain and rear sprocket on the bike, which can influence loss. Dynos can be calibrated differently. None of these factors are generally published with a chart, which makes direct comparison difficult. The Superflow has been replaced by a Mustang dual roll dyno that allows us to develop UTVs, and it can be converted to a single roll for motorcycles by disengaging one roll. It uses different software, has different calibration capabilities and can produce different numbers than the Superflow did. The ONLY truly valid comparison for dyno runs between different bikes is on the same dyno on the same day under as near identical conditions. Anything else is just an estimation.

 

Because anyone that has them isn't interested in your challenge because they understand what you don't seem to be able to grasp; that comparison is irrelevant and the numbers aren't comparable on different dynos with different operators/tuners/fuels in different parts of the country at different elevations. And since you've made your position very clear regarding what your desired outcome is out of this "challenge" is, any discrepancy you might see in the numbers will be misunderstood (intentionally or otherwise) to support that position.

And to be definitively clear, it's absolutely not all about the talent of the rider. It's about the rider, the motor, the chassis, the team and what they know, the tools they use and how they use them, and so on ... all of it.

If you want to exclusively focus on the human element, maybe redirect your attention to some barefoot track and field series, just so no one with better running sneakers beats you.

Edit: Frank beat me by a second and said it better.

 

"I would've been faster but the grass in my lane was too dry and it hurt my feet. Everybody else had better grass"

 

You're dancing around the point, but we can read you loud and clear. Even by your past posts here, you have a losing, boo-hoo, its not fair, attitude. Not to pat myself on the back, but ill give you an example from a personal perspective.

2019, I took a kid who had lots of talent, financed two bikes for an (entry level pro class)
We built the bikes, by the rules, and went against other teams with huge budgets, and factory efforts and factory supported efforts.

In a class that allows a lot of work, we focused on what we could do better, which was instead of finding every last hp, we went for longevity, and reliability.

We tried to get a parts budget, and were denied (probably by his past drug test failure several years back) and got zero support.

We freshened the engine top end once, in the middle of the season.

We knew there were others with faster engines, way more money, but we dug deep, trained his ass off, and in the end, it came to the last race.

We, on 2 bank owned bikes built in my shop, beat Red-Bull KTM, Factory Husky, Factory Honda, etc.

Long story short, we hustled, scraped, and travelled the entire series, and beat the big dogs.

In the years since, we went to Factory harley, and now Factory Honda.

In other words, the only things stopping your success is your attitude. And quite frankly, it sucks. Im an asshole to the highest degree, but I don't fucking quit and I dont cry and make excuses.

Maybe you can't see it in the way you write/type, but man, its like you give up before you even try.

 

This is why I don't even do dyno shit anymore. They will argue and say the other guys Dyno reads higher so mine is bad. Not knowing the other 100 factors that go into that.,

 

As Mike put aptly, it's not just the rider. Getting an optimal setup for any track takes time, you don't just unload the bike and hit the track. There are many factors to consider, having data is extremely useful and the reason why we use the WSS300 kit. Suspension settings can vary from day to day at an event as conditions change. The track may not provide the same level of grip as the last time we were there, there may be new bumps or repairs to the surface. Gearing choices can change. We have data from most of the tracks from last year, but we have to consider that Gus is bigger than he was last year so we have to account for that. I believe he is riding somewhat differently than last year due to training in the off-season, so we also consider that. The motor itself isn't the most important issue, the setup is what yields the biggest dividends.

 

Again, thank you for a informative post. People are so hell bent on attacking and doing a tar and feather job rather than informing. You information is valued to us because YOU are in the fight.

My other concerns have been because another was also in the fight much like yourself and went through a season of hell from protests etc. No way I could endure what his team and himself went through without wanting to quit and walk away. So I am walking a fine line of information known that won't be shared on this board.

I'm not versed on the ins and outs of a dyno. Sounds like a ton of variables. And like you said, unless doing a comparison on the same dyno, the hp comparisons are nill. It is still my strong opinion that a un-cracked stock motor will not be competitive. This will most likely be a point that we will agree to disagree.

Despite the negativity of other, I do believe I have a rider that has top ten talent. If I knew that I could upgrade her rear shock, and motor wasn't a limiting factor I would make it a go at least a round to see where she stacks up. For those that truly know our family KNOW I am a person of my word.

Again, truly appreciate your professionalism and information. Gus is really lucky to have someone like you in his corner.

Come on Mike, you are better than comments like that.