Is a 400cc bike too small for track days with half-mile straightaways?

that applies here how???

 

then you ran a mid 1:50s on an outlap to his 2:09s flyers?

 

First: If you have A group pace and / or significant race experience, you do not belong on track in N group unless you are coaching. Doesn't matter what you are riding.

14 years of track days. Started in N of course, but was only there for about 1 year. Most of the time in A group, but plenty of time in I group with certain orgs as well (N2). All that time I only bumped another rider on track one time. Neither of us went down and we couldn't even find any damage or paint swapped. We both made the corner. I crashed 3 times total in those 14 years and none of those involved another rider.

Track days can be as safe or safer than racing if you are riding with a safety margin. All racing organizations and track day organizations have bad days with lots of crashes. Rarely in track days is it a multi-bike collision, but as stated above, when it happens, it can be very bad. I never had a close call from running up on a little bike while on any of my track bikes: FZ1, R1, Tuono twin or SV 650.

MARRC day at Summit Main in the "Experienced track rider" group. The skill levels were all over the map. I was on my SV and passing 600s & 1000s frequently and there were a couple of guys on big bikes blowing right past me. I think there was just one crash in our group all day, so you never know. Speed differential doesn't always mean unsafe. We all found ways to get around the track safely that day.

 

I'll be the first to say that even though I can ride fairly well I much preferred lightweight practice over being in the heavyweight practice on WERA weekends. I wasn't terribly worried about being run over but I did feel like I was in the way of the fast riders on the big bikes. Track day is a different story. I largely had no issues in the A group on those days as there is often a much larger disparity of rider quality at those events.

 

Because Moto 2, Moto 3 and trackdays are all the same.

 

Track conditions were changing all weekend. There was one point when Moto3 were faster. I wouldn't draw any hasty conclusions.

 

Can? Isn't there a statute of limitations on such claims after one hasn't touched a bike in a number of years?

 

Nope... I'm just as fast as I have always been which is to say...not very.

 

Reading is fundamental.....

 

I wouldn’t say one is more inherently dangerous than the other. They both cary risk that are some what different, mainly do to structure/class differences etc, but the overall risk remains the same. Can’t say there is much if any difference in this regard. One carries the same level of risk as the other, no question.

 

It depends on the individual riders. Some folks cant stand getting passed, especially by a "slow" bike. Others are just out there to learn and have fun.

At a trackday a couple of weeks ago an R3 went around me. At first I thought it was just because I had screwed up the corner so bad, and I promptly went back past him. Then he did it again at the next corner, so I passed him on the slightly longer straight. When he came around me the third time (2 corners later) I realized that I was in his way, so I slotted in behind him to see if I could keep up with him. That didn't last very long.

 

I agree with you here. NCBike, unlike Summit, can run 400s at a pretty 'competitive' pace on most sections of that track.

I don't agree with this at all. I'd just opt to not ride my 400 since that is a real option. You have to get bumped back up from the beginner class and, anyway, I would necessarily have to ride more conservatively. Too much unpredictability vis a vis line changes. I've been unfortunate enough to have to start in the "B" group (because I was new to the particular track day org).

Wait...what does this mean? A "much larger disparity of rider quality" in the A group or just the track day event overall?

 

With more than triple the displacement and equally skilled riders the time difference is only marginal. My point is that a 400cc bike in capable hands will by no means be in the way of mediocre 600-1000+cc riders.

 

You are correct, the weather was a factor. That said, there wasn't a time deviation compared to other weekends and races. The 250's aren't that much slower than the 765's.

 

I raced with ahrma in the late 90's-early 2000's. Oneof the bikes I rode was a 1996 honda rs125. Ahrma put the rs125 in the fastest practice group, so big Ducatis, RC51, Aprilia. Yes, they would pass on the straights, but I would almost invariably make up the distance in the brake zone at the end of the straight. Usually rode away from them, depending on the track. Summit Point main was a track where you could keep the big bikes behind you.
It never seemed like a safety issue, even at Road America.

 

Everyone on a little bike has some hero story about how some big, dumb fool on a big bike passed them under power and then held them up in a corner.

But we never, ever hear from them when a big bike passes them under power (or in a corner) and then disappears.

Which is what happens most of the time.

 

Just a big spread in the skill sets of the average A group at a track day. WERA practice sessions didn't seem to have as much variance in the speeds of the heavyweight practice sessions.

 

No doubt that's what happens most of the time on a race weekend. Less so on the average track day. Still happens just not "all" of the riders are capable of running away.

 

On a race weekend, if those bikes are on the track at the same time, something went wrong. (Unless I'm not understanding your post.)

 

I've been in heavyweight practice on a lightweight bike on a race weekend. No...they aren't on track together under racing conditions.