Oakland Warehouse Fire

That's why I get pissed at people who say regulations are bullshit and unnecessary red tape. You ever try to remove a burned body from a building?

All of the fire chiefs in our state were trying to push for fire suppression systems to be added to the code for houses over a certain square footage - it was blocked by the local contractors. I wish I could have stood up and asked them to volunteer for body recovery after the fact.

Not only that - but the houses go up so fast today that we barely have time to do anything before the house is fully engulfed. You can lose EVERYTHING in under 5 minutes - 30 years ago you had at least 15. We got a page a few winters ago for smoke - it was 2 minutes before I was out the door and driving to the station - the whole multimillion dollar house was ripping before I even got to the station (total of 5 minutes from page to fire truck). All we can do is put water on the outside at that point and hope you don't burn your neighbors house down too. Plastic materials and fibers fucking suck. Sprinkler systems would reduce life and property loss - and cut down the burden on resources.

 

That interview was just awful. Totally agree with you.

 

Personally I think that's where we need to look at the stats and make decisions from there. Correct me if I'm wrong but we lose about 2500 people a year in home fires. In a country of 320,000,000 I'd say that's pretty good. Do we really need to put sprinklers in every home? I looked into having sprinklers installed in a facility I was going to have built and was told I'd be looking at upwards of $50,000. This was for a building with no walls inside and more egress than walls on the outside. These gov bureaucrats actually told me that they require even pavilions to have sprinklers. Yes, a structure with NO outside walls required sprinkling. Not sure how we'd ever get out! Some of this stuff is fine but then they take it way too far based on the "nobody can ever get hurt no matter the cost" methodology. I think that sometimes it has a lot more to due with protecting the insurance industry than anything else.

 

Maybe not more, but it is absolutely a factor. Most of the fire codes are written by insurance companies. In many states, administration of the building codes is through the state insurance people. You do the math.

 

It's not just about loss of life - it's about the property and all of the exposures as well. One House fire here last year took out 4 others on the same block.

It also wasn't a push for ALL homes - just those of new construction over a certain square footage. The fire chiefs are not in bed with the insurance companies - so I wouldn't suggest it.

I can agree that a pavilion is a bit excessive and I can only fathom that the rational behind it is to prevent the fire from spreading to other structures or causing a wild fire (depending upon where you are).

The biggest part of the fire department these days is prevention - and we hammer it home.

 

Yeah - code written to prevent entire cities from burning to the ground. That is where state insurance companies came from.

Do some research on the history.

The main issue with codes today and their enforcement is the complexity of the codes. No one knows what the fuck is up when you have to read 800 pages of fire code text to build a house. Because of the complexity - it can absolutely muddy the water and make people view enforcement as a benefit of the state. But the intent is life and property safety.

 

And just an edit:

I am bias.
I will admit that.
But you never get the smell of burning flesh out of your mind.

I don't want people to be burdened with excessive costs - but I also don't want people to die.

Where is the line?

 

I know you are volunteer fire, and I respect that. I have been designing, constructing and operating residential and commercial structures for over 40 years, so I have some familiarity with the process. I have participated on building code committees. Life safety is absolutely important, but to pretend that the sole reason for much of what is in the fire codes is to save life and limb is a bit naive.

 

So did the people who went to the party climbing up the pallet staircase not know or care that was the only way in or out?? Or did they just not look?

 

Stop drop &... and I always forget the last one???

 

Wear a rubber?

 

Missed the numerous property protection mentions?

The intent was and always has been about life and property protection. No where have I ever said, nor have I pretended, it was just about life safety.

Fire suppression systems save lives, property and resources - as stated above.

I have stake in the game. I don't want to have to go to a fire. I would much rather people don't lose their entire life in 4 minutes. Which is the reason I admitted my bias also. I do it because I am needed. I do it to serve my community. But if building codes made it so I only ever had to pull the trash line off the truck - I wouldn't waste any tears.

 

We all don't want government - until it suits us. Fire is where I show my baboon ass.

Fire scares me. It excites me. It gets my blood pumping 800 miles a minute. There is nothing like kneeling at the end of a hose line while flames start curling and boiling up across a ceiling. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Sounds like racing, eh?

 

I am a cynic. There are people who are motivated to save lives first. There are others motivated to save property. Still others are motivated to not have to pay out settlements.

 

There are places scarily similar to the "Ghost Ship" in Atlanta, I've worked in a few of them. Crappy old warehouses full of artsy types living there where they throw parties and such to pay the bills. Flammables all over the place, very few exits, no fire suppression equipment anywhere to be seen and interiors setup like a rat maze. I imagine the same things is going on in every larger city.

 

The line is where your personal freedom affect others.

If your property burning can cause devastation to others, you're subject to code.

 

Girl, you do as good a job as you can under the stupidity that exists and do what you can to improve it. That's all that you can do. DO NOT stress yourself about it so much. We know you care about your neighbors and friends and that's why you do what you do but you cannot take it home and roll it over in your mind constantly. It will damage you without helping anything else.

Keep up the good work and go kiss your kids. (Don't kiss Dern cuz that how you got the two kids.)

 

Yesterday afternoon I saw an interview with two women from the San Francisco area. Both were ex prosecutors and are now defense attorneys. They agreed that the litigation from this will be multi faceted. First, the deep pockets will be the targets. It will then spread out to affiliated entities connected to the building. Manager, tenants, etc. will all be examined with a magnification glass to see who has the most money to grab. They both also suggested the city with the deepest pocket may very well be a target for not enforcing whatever regulations that were available. Lots of money will change hands before it's done.