I am a noob and getting my street bike set up to run a trackday. Everyone tells me I will want a bike just for track days. I find good prices on some 2 strokes but there is allways a list of just rebuilt parts listed. It sounds like it cost more per year to run a 2 stroke? What is the cost diff to run a hand full of trackdays on a 2 stoke to a sv 650 or another good starterbike?
you get what you pay for. if you want cheap, get an SV. but, an SV is not a grandprix bike. mtc. vince
Don't listen to everyone... "Everyone" is right, you will want a second, track only bike. 2 strokes are cheap to re-build but can be very expensive to run. More or less, they are very highly tuned race machines that aren't designed to last more than 300 miles per top end, reeds, cush drive rubbers, chain and other assorted parts. The engine is only good for 1200 miles and then you have to replace the crank etc. Race bikes are designed to go the race distance (30-40miles) and then be torn apart, inspected and rebuilt. Side note, a 250GP bike is 3x the cost of a 125GP. The real cost difference from an SV650 to a 125GP bike is hard to figure. A stock SV650 ridden at the track will cost you as little or as much as you want it too. If you buy a stock-ish prepped bike (or package) you can ride it a year and then re-sell it for pretty much what you paid for it minus changing the oil, tires and maybe a few things that break (crashing exempt from this line of discussion). The real cost of 1 year on a bike like that can be very, very low. The real cost to build a superbike motor for that SV650 is almost the same as some of the 125GP bikes I've seen for sale lately. If you want to race prep an SV650 to run in the top 10 at your club then the costs are significatly higher and 1 year of racing an SV650 is more than the 125GP class for sure. This is because the 125Gp bikes are already real race bikes. To turn an SV650 into a real race bike and ride it as such is 5X more expensive than running a 125GP machine. In general, racing involves crashing and 125GP bikes are pretty much the cheapest bike to crash on because they're the lightest bikes on the track so they don't break stuff when they go down. A 350Lbs. SV650 will bend forks, break subframes, bend wheels etc. when you crash so the cost of laying it down is much, much higher. Thus if you're looking for a track bike a stock SV650 is much cheaper than a 125GP. If you're looking to race your bike, the 125GP machine is a cheaper option in my opinion. On my 125GP 2 smoker I figure $2 a mile for tires, engine and wear parts etc. With one lap being 2.5 miles it's $5 worth of fun for just over 2 minutes. These are figures I don't tell my wife. 4.16 cents per second puts a grin on my face that lasts at least 30 days so you have to factor in the cost of the thrill. If you want cheap, buy a prepped SV650 and a stack of tires and go to the track. If you want to learn how to ride a real race bike, buy a 2 stroke and learn how to work on it. You won't regret it but if you have to ask this question, you should probably just keep the bike you're on and take it to the track with fresh tires. The reason I say this is the last very nicely setup race package I sold to a college kid, he's ridden it all of 3 times and destroyed $1000 worth of engine his first trip to the track. He's fast and loves the bike but he can't afford to own-fix-rebuild it and actually ride it. If you have to ask, you already know the answer to this one. PL
+1 on what Peter said. On a GP bike, the rebuilds are easily predictable, and easily done. I shudder to think what it would cost to rebuild an SV650 engine. I went from a Honda 125 to a Yamaha 250, and the cost is only double, not triple! I think if I'd gone to a Honda 250, it would have been X4 instead of X3!
I only plan on doing trackdays. I have raced in many different forms of racing and There is never cheap in racin. I just havnt been into any 2 pops beside a weed eater so it sounds like to me a used sv set up to get my feet wet will be best. I am a tech for the last 14 years so I am sure i could work on it but maybe I will see a few in action first.Yes I know the 125's will fly around me.
The cost for a bottom/top-end rebuild on a Honda RS250 is ridiculous. That alone swayed me away from getting an RS250. I keep thinking of getting the TZ250, but rarely see them in price ranges I'm willing to spend. Couple that with the spare engine and 6 pistons I've got for my bike and that means I'll be riding the RS125 for a while.
Good info. I plan on racing next year and can't decide between an SV650, an RS125 or even a Moriwaki MD250h.
you sound like a good candidate for a GP bike. you should get what you 'want'...as you know, you can sink in (and the bike will take) whatever amount of money regardless of how many revs it takes the bike to fire once. a 2T WILL require more TLC. BUT....most of us actually 'like' the TLC part; the TLC is sooooooo super easy to do, a 2 year old could do it; and the reward is sooooo much higher, imo. consider: a 125 makes 40-odd HP and weighs like 150lbs. yes, 150 or something ridiculous (my 250 comes off track at 230-235lbs). an SV is >400lbs, and makes less power than my 250. freaking night and day. if you arent looking to develop your endurance racing skills via trackdays, the GP bike route is certainly possible. if mileage is your goal, the GP bike is not the best solution. put another way: quality vs. qty. 125's will go through tires very slowly. i'd guess the SV and a 250 would be similar (they use the same buns). i think you nailed it when you mention coming out and seeing some up close. talk to some local guys (all are usually very open to discussing their kit). peak under the tank and see just how simple a GP bike is. i bet i could pull the tranny out of my TZ before the SV guy can get his airbox off. no shit. that said, the SV guy probably has no need to get to the airbox so long as he doesnt hit the deck. energizer bunny thing.... i pull heads between sessions sometimes just to kill time and feel good. lol. hth, vince
I've recently been in a similar situation (minus the prior race experience). I rode my SV650 on the street + track and then tired of having to go from "street mode" to "track mode" and back again once I started doing more track days. I picked up a race-prepped 2001 GSXR-600 and happily used that as my trackday ride for the last 4 years or so. Then I started seeing noticing these small bikes that sounded like weed wackers and passed me in the corners like I was standing still. Hmmm... 2 years ago I picked up a TZ 125. Rode it at a few trackdays and it was a wholly new experience. I could only describe it as riding a motorcycle that handled like a bicycle and had a powerband that was unforgiving but addictive. After talking with some other 125 GP owners, I was talked into trying out a race with USGPRU. I learned more in a few practice sessions out on the track with other 125 GP bikes than I had in several trackdays on the TZ. I had no idea of the cornerspeed you could carry on them until I watched the riders in front of me disappear as we entered turn 1 off the front straight at NJMP Lightning. unbelievable. Since then, I've done a mix of races and trackdays with the TZ. I prefer racing the TZ. It's much more fun on the track and I learn more about wrenching and tuning the 125 when there are more 125 GP riders in the paddock. The maintenance is not bad, and is trivial compared to the 4T bikes I own. The problem is that I'm now hooked on lighter weight bikes and no longer care about straight-line speed (not that I ever really did, for that matter...). So, at the end of this season, I picked up an Aprilia RS250 Cup bike to replace the GSXR. It's a little harder to work on than the TZ (more parts/bits to deal with vs. the simple single cylinder TZ), but it's much much lighter than the GSXR or the SV. In a reasonably-close-to-stock state of tune, parts on the RS don't need replacing as often as on the TZ, so for trackdays it should hold the overall cost down. I'm sure there will still be an initial period of riding adjustment and getting a decent tuning baseline established. And there are a few engine options that I might explore if I get the itch (banshee/RZ350 engine swap, or this if I win the lottery: http://www.twostrokeshop.com/) One thing about racing though: it's VERY difficult to do on a limited budget, especially if you crash the bike. Replacing fairings, controls, etc. adds up in a hurry. Add in tires, fuel, race entry fees and it's that much more. A few friends who started racing 125s at the same time have had to quit for this reason. so far, I've avoided major crashes on the TZ and only seized the engine once when a head O ring failed, so my costs have not been too great. I'll probably wind up picking up a newer model Honda RS 125 sometime for next season, since aftermarket and used replacement parts are more readily available for the Honda. Yamaha didn't make that many TZs over the years and stopped making them entirely last year. I'm stockpiling pistons and crank parts as much as possible now.
I picked up my '93 TZ250 in July '09 for $3500, and found a complete spare engine for another $2000, so after buying some parts, I'm good to go for a while! This thing goes like stink!
