No news on the biggest problem in the Middle East

Now Syria,

"Israel and American officials are already saying Syria must bear some of the blame for the capture of a young Israeli soldier in Gaza last month - because it plays host to part of the Hamas leadership."

Perhaps Israel is a US state.

 

LOL!


Israeli's kick butt. Seems like the local Islamic countries are always mad at them. What's new...

Economy envy? I don't think Israel has any real oil reserves, but they seem to have a decent economy, and a good military that doubles as police...or maybe they use the military for police action work in other areas when the local Islamic leaders can't seem to control their folks.


As for racism in all this...

Does one have to be Jewish to be Israeli? And I think that being Jewish...well, that's a religion, not a race.

 

I think you might find some groups that would disagree.

 

I can become Jewish...I can't become a race.

 

Now that's a very intriguing question: can a (host) country be held responsible for "militants" (which I call terrorist organizations)? Why not?
Certainly you would agree that other nations can demand that a (host)
country shut down terrorist groups (sorry, "militants") operating in its territory. By the way, Spain does not assist the Basque terrorists, but hunts them down. Germany did the same years ago. comments?

 

Yes you can make a religious conversion, but there is a basis for a blood relationship to the original tribes of Israel which you would not meet. And from the standpoint of certain hate groups, the descendants of the original tribes don't get a pass for not being religious Jews.

 

The UK never hunted down the IRA unless there was a specific criminal incident involving its members on sovereign soil. Why do you think Jerry Adams was allowed to come to the US and preach his cause. The same with Germany. The Basque are not who I am thinking of but I can not remember their name, red something. The reason is you make them martyrs and more flock to the cause. I can not see how you can hold a country responsible for a minority group without using diplomacy such as the US did with the Taliban (Afghan goverment) originally as long as you get the facts right.

 

An Israeli is a citizen of Israel. And with your line of thought on religion you'll have a difficult time explaining Christian Jews.

 

If you can prove Jewish lineage, you have a "right of return". What that means if that if you are Jewish, were born of Jewish parents, you can get Israeli citizenship. However, there are a good many other people who are Israelis and citizens. Arabs Israelis get to vote, exercise 99% of the right that the Jews have, and used to be exempt from military service (don't know what the rule is now).

Art

 

LOL!

Military Intellegence

Christian Jews

Christians Against Christ

All those contridictions.

 

Surely, you jest: The UK did indeed hunt down and kill IRA terrorists. Jerry Adams was not a member of the IRA, at least not 'officially',when the privilege was extended by the President to visit the U.S. Fuck this bullshit about "making them martyrs and more flock to their cause." Let them all die if that's the case. Who says there is no diplomacy attempted with (host) countries when terrorist groups are on their soil? Then, tell me, what do you do when 'diplomacy' fails, do you sit on yer ass and wait for the inevitable attack? The Basques you refer to are in and around the Pyrenees mountains
in the north of Spain, but the Spanish now have a more formidable group of
terrorists to deal with in Spain, and they are quite vigorous about hunting
them down too...tell me more exactingly what your point is regarding "getting the facts straight." Respectfully.

 

Getting the facts straight was referring to the inteligence used to justify invasion. In my opinion it was correct for Afghanistan but incorrect intel for Iraq. That is what I meant.

As far as the UK and the IRA my facts are correct. The IRA members who were known to have broken the law were hunted down and any other criminal activity that was discovered in any intel or covert way was also used in a means that were not of a totally legal nature. Jerry Adams was a member of the IRA when he came to the US and was a member for many years. He was on the propaganda wing of the provisional shinn fein. If you were not there or had close contact with the situation how can you call me as bullshit. Most of the funding came from the US which sent there members to Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and the Lebanon. Were the English the terrorists then. Why else were there fund drives done over here. I have no sympathy with any terrorist organisation that pick on civilian populations to instill terror as we are seeing in India (this is what terrorism is). Define terrorist in the new sense of the word and it seems to be anyone who does not agree with your way of life. Basically I think Israel is going too hard with a BS excuse of a soldier or soldiers. They (the soldiers) are in uniform and as others have pointed out this is war.

 

Let me get this straight: Israel is attacked twice by terrorist and they should be reprimanded? From our favorite source, the NYT.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Hezbollah leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, suggested the possibility of a package deal.

“The capture of the two soldiers could provide a solution to the Gaza crisis,” Sheik Nasrallah said in Beirut. The operation had been planned for months, he said, though he added, “the timing, no doubt, provides support for our brothers in Palestine.”

Hezbollah said “the two captives were transferred to a safe place,” but did not give additional details on their condition..................

Today’s fighting erupted around 9 a.m. when Hezbollah attacked several northwestern Israeli towns with rocket fire, injuring several civilians, the Israeli military said. Israeli civilians rushed into their bomb shelters and many remained there throughout the day.

But that attack was a diversion for the main operation, several miles to the east, where Hezbollah militants fired anti-tank missiles on two armored vehicles patrolling the Israeli side of the border fence, the military said.

Of the seven soldiers in the two vehicles, three were killed, two were wounded and two were abducted, the military said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/12/w...&en=06eac7c0cc4f7f8f&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Hamas is the government in Gaza. The people elected terrorist to represent them and now must take responsibility for their actions. I am somewhat more sympathetic to the government in Lebanon, because they are so weak. Hezbollah is well represented in that government also, and the Lebanese government is not controling the terrorist operating on their southern border. These terrorist forces invaded Israel today. Is Israel to do nothing? Should there be any consequences for Syria which is the real power in southern Lebanon? How about Iran who finances Hezbollah?

This quote from Lincoln's second inaugural address is pointed out on one of my favorite blogs:
"Both parties deprecated war, but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive, and the other would accept war rather than let it perish. And the war came."

I think the Islamist will demand this war. Sure hope I am wrong.
"

 

To keep things clear for those coming onto this thread, are we getting on about the current situation in the Middle East, i.e., the Israeli reponse to the
latest provacations? Are we discussing all and everything about 'terrorism'?
For example, do we see all 'terrorist' groups as the same, past and present?
Do our moral, political, ethical, and/or political viewpoints enter into outr analysis, i.e., are some terrorist groups "good", others "bad"? At this point in this discourse, I would like to throw this out for consideration and response:
the conflict between the West and Islam (Muslim socieities) was only interrupted by two World Wars and the Cold War, and at the end of the cold War, the conflict resumed. It is, in my opinion, a 'clash of cultures,' and is not likely to end with diplomacy and peace treaties. The fundamental concept in Islam is to convert all peoples to Islam (to be Muslims), and that is a dynamic force driving hostility towards the West (i.e., the Infidels).
Comments?

 

I read a really good article on this two days ago that I really agreed with but for the life of me cannot relocate. I'll attempt to replicate its ideas as best I can.

I think you're dead on but I dont know if our leaders are aware of this larger picture. I can't say how many muslims want to take over western cultures, but I did read somewhere that a poll in London showed 60% of the muslim residents of that city wanted Sharia law, so that should say something.

Unfortunately, I believe this larger battle has already been lost (by the west). There's three major characteristics of western liberal democracies that will be our undoing: 1) Low birth rates, esp. versus muslim ones 2) The "Multicultural" movement is at the point where we are to be tolerant of intolerance. 3) open imigration

Lets start out with an assumption: open imigration policies of western countries will not change. Every major western power has an inverted population with big social promises to keep; they need imigration. So I'm assuming they will remain open to immigration.

Due to item #2, our countries will pretty much accept muslims even if there is conservative grumbling on the internet or radio. Due to item #1 the muslim populations, which the Paris riots reminded us like to keep to themselves and keep their values alive, will continue to grow while the people that sourced modern western culture will shrink due to low birthrates. Western countries basically take in anyone and don't worry about if they accept our culture and ideas, and god forbid we make it a requirement. We aren't replacing ourselves, but they sure are and then some.

Its already happening in Europe. The muslims are gaining political power and there are intermitent votes regarding laws about critizing islam etc. I'm not aware of any that have passed, but they will eventually because the demographics will support it. (blogs have actually come through on that part and link to such votes...don't look for it in the MSM, even Fox)

I can imagine a possible push back - the rise of a new type of Hitler at some point to galvanize us against all things muslim, and lead western culture to fight back, kick-out/kill the muslims, fight their countries in all-out war etc. But if that happens we've lost the characteristic that makes our culture what it is. If such a thing doesn't happen, well then the demophraphics will take over.

Arafat (i think it was him) himself claimed that the best weapon the palestinians have was the womb. Eventually Europe will just be a geographical label for another place full of islam. America...well, most of our imigrants are latin who are pretty catholic, so maybe it won't be so muslim around here in a couple generations. However, our national birth rate is only 2.09 children per woman and thats being propped up by imigrants, so who knows what it will be like here. I dont see many signs that imigrants are comming here to adopt our culture.

The terrorists know they can't beat us in an all-out no holds battle. But they know we won't defend our own culture at the risk of hurting another while we're not making any babies trying to live posh life styles. They only have to keep us occupied with the terrorism shit long enough to let western culture suicide.

 

Now, to lighten the mood in case your thinking of how your great grand-daughters will be wearing veils, check out this un-pc song.
http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=19238_Its_In_the_Koran&only

 

The reason all this turmoil has been going on in the Middle East for decades is because after WWII, the global behind-the-scenes political consensus is to have little wars, but don't let them escalate to a big, all-deciding war.

These little wars never bring the general population of a region into the necessary attitude that the French and Germans have now. You know, "f$#@ this fighting $hit; we've had enough, let's be weenie cowards from here on out."

Israel and the Arabs need to just DO IT! Fight 'til whatever side's general population finally gives up for good like the Frenchies and Germans and gets rid of the meglomanical political leaders pushing the wars.

I say to BOTH sides over there:

Git-r-done!!!!

Only then will there be peace.

 

If the rest of your post is as misinformed as this little gem, your credibility here is shot.

 

Well, I'm just trying to restate what I read another place that I can't seem to find again.

Are you arguing with the fact that europe has large unassimilated muslim populations or that they chose to stay that way?