I was requested to take this discussion off the Greg Moore thread, which I have no problem with. However, I don't see any need to take it to PMs, I like to hear what others think too. To recap: Me Sounds like they need better ambulance coverage at the track. They should be prepared to handle heavy trauma cases. Those are usually the times when the last thing you want is further delay caused by calling another unit to the track. This reminds me of a conversation I had at the LRRS banquet last weekend concerning how racers feel about the competency and availability of medical response. Seemed as though many racers just didn't want to think about it. From the description, sounds like NPR is running a little light on medical services. Do any of you racers ever investigate ahead of time the level of medical service provided at a track before racing there? Your life could depend on the competency of care you receive out on the track. Regardless of the level you race at, I've seen enough crashes to know that anyone can be swept up in catastrophic events, including spectators and officials. Manic Sounds like you needed to be there before passing judgement. The second ambulance was called for transport so the one hired by the track would not have to leave the grounds and further delay anything else. This event happened to be overwith but that is the procedure that we follow. In this case Air-med was brought in but Greg recieved Parametic care about 15 seconds after his bike stopped sliding. Sorry for the defensive sounding tone of this response but your response seems to be nothing but trouble making as the event was run with rider safety FIRST on the list. Even the section of wall that Greg was unlucky enough to encounter was further down the track than previously thought would cause problems. Hindsite being 20/20 those issues are being addressed as I type this in order for something like this never happening again. But again, NO! The ambulance service was not a problem at all. Hell, the track is out in the middle of NOWHERE and the second ambulance was on scene within 8 min. Air-med was on scene within 15-20 and they came from over 40 miles away! Me Sorry if you think questioning the safety arrangements is just trouble-making. My statement was based on the response I got to an earlier post stating the second ambulance was a trauma unit. I don't race, the safety aspect is where I get involved. The point I was alluding to was that one ambulance at the track is not sufficient. With a seriously injured rider or multiple serious injuries, one ambulance crew would be unlikely to be able to provide services needed. I am suggesting that you consider having more than one unit at the track. Just as you didn't forsee the rider hitting the wall, you may not be forseeing the possibility of a multiple heavy trauma crash. An eight minute response time to a rider who isn't breathing is a serious delay. Just curious, are all transports done by helicopter there? Manic Please tell me how many would be enough? As I stated before, NO ONE waited 8min. Greg had medical help within a FEW SECONDS. The closest hospital is less than 10 min away and I only know of 1 other instance in 3 years that a rider has been airlifted. The track is located on a fairly small area of land and even the farthest part of the track can be reached within 1 min. Greg recieved excellent care and the reason he was airlifted was to get a seriously injured rider to an EXCELLENT hospital in the shortest period of time because of the severe pain he was in. I don't wish to argue, just to calm any unnessary BS added to an unfortunate situation. For the record, I am a racer, track rider, and as Race Director for this event, Saftey was my main concern. I look at everything with the "what if I were in this race" mentality. If you do have other comments or questions, please PM me so as to try to keep this thread about Greg. I am printing these responses and bringing them to Greg on a daily basis so as to keep him cheered up. New Stuff You stated before "Hell, the track is out in the middle of NOWHERE and the second ambulance was on scene within 8 min. Air-med was on scene within 15-20 and they came from over 40 miles away!" My comment about an 8 minute wait supposes that there are two or more riders in critical condition. In this case, no, Greg didn't wait 8 minutes, but what if he wasn't the only serious injury? I would say 2 or 3 ambulances would be sufficient. The number of airlifts you have had is not relevant. It does not predict future incidents. I mostly work at Loudon, we have at least 3 ambulances, sometimes 4 or 5 and I have seen instances where 4 were needed. We had an airlift last season, it was the first ever for motorcycles there. I'm not disparaging your job performance here, just suggesting you reconsider the required number of ambulances.
I've been to NPR twice and have NEVER felt unsafe. The wall the Greg hit is not in the best spot, but when I was there it was adequately covered. FLuke accidents do happen. It sucks that he hit the wall where he did. I think 2 ambulances is enough at any event. I hope Greg heals quick and kicks some ass this season. I know a lot of people are concerned about that wall. It can be a nutsucker of a turn, but hey, we race and if it soooo scarey, then people would stop because the cost would outway the benefit. I am not slamming your post (in a grumpy mood all day from lack of sleep) just posting another viewpoint. (not at this COS event though.....) Lee
The place is a f@cking death trap waiting to happen. Thank G@D Wera chose not to schedule any more nat'ls there. And yeah there aren't enough ambulances within 100 miles to safeguard that place. Any questions?
Re: yes, i have one.... That's the beauty of placing a track in the middle of a swamp nobody knows for sure. It's only been in operation for three years give it some time. Take a trip to the basin sometime and take your R1 for a spin. Report back here with details.
I actually wasn't commenting on the wall, I haven't seen it and am not familiar with the set-up. I have seen walls hit in places where no one expected anyone to hit them. I was in T1 at Loudon in 98 when Tom Wilson hit the wall there at about 100 mph, myself and two others had less than 3 seconds to evacuate our cornerworker outpost before it was totally destroyed by the bike. I'm sure the wall at NPR will be covered next time. I was just very surprized that they only had one ambulance at the track. I don't think it's a good policy. That would be my opinion concerning the safest track you could cite.
Re: yes, i have one.... Of what relevance is this? I have never raced NPR so I can't offer an opinion on the safety of the track but I don't see how comparing it to a track that has a questionable safety record would excuse an unsafe condition at NPR, if there were one. Steve
It's not a death trap. Sure there is a wall that that has issues (like cover the whole thing with airfence if you can't remove it) but it is still not a death trap. I bet every track we go to there is a spot that is bad. Turn 9a(think that's the one) at TWS, but WERA ran there. It's just one of those turns to back it down a little through....and in racing conditions, you just back it down a little less than the guy behind ya..... Lee
Re: Re: yes, i have one.... Wow, your arguments have rational written all over them I have more laps on that track than anyone on this board that I know of (someone feel free to correct me). While I am not a "fast guy", I know the wall. Yes, the wall sucks. Yes, it is the most dangerous part of the track. It was however covered with several sections of airfence. It is unfortunate that Greg hit where he did. He hit the wall in a place where you should have the bike uprigght. Unfortuntely due to where he began to lose control(sliding, then tankslapper)........he bailed off the bike, and unfortunately made contact with the wall. We all wish Greg a speedy recovery, but this isn't about him. Let's draw a comparison. Daytona. How many killed, injured? We all know that track is dangerous, and probably requires a bit more awareness on our part as riders. Does that stop people from racing there year in and out? Should we? For some yes, for some no. Some people love it. That said, I don't think NPR is nearly as dangerous as Daytona. All the necessary safety personell was in place this weekend. You weren't there, so we don't need your comments on it. As for the track in general.........feel free to never come down here again
NPR Safety Yes, I have a question. What exactly do you find so terrifying about NPR. Every track that I have ever been to has something about it that is less than optimal.
The fact that you compare NPR to Daytona confirms my statements. Next time you take a cool down lap around this concrete cage take note of the concrete wall lining the edge of turn two. The apexes of turns 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 possess concrete barriers with most accompanied by chainlink fence. It's unfortunate racers have few choices to race at safe tracks. Worse they feel inclined to justify those choices.
I'm not comparing NPR and Daytona, not saying they are alike. There is a big difference. Again, I wholeheartedly invite you to not come to NPR. If you don't feel safe, I understand. We don't need you to justify YOUR decision either though.
when we run track days we usually have 2 ambulances on site. if one leaves to take someone to the hospital, another gets called to replace the one thats gone. We won't run on the track until ambulace is in place. If both ambulances are in the paddock, we will wait til they return to post. 1 ambulace does not sound enough for racing. The chance of having multi-bike accidents are high. I have been to so many races where more than 1 bike was down during the same race. The 2 crashes I was involved in at summit this year, if they only had 1 ambulance at the track, someone (could be me) could have died. Also if you are only going to have one ambulance ready trackside, why wouldn't you have one that can handle any trauma? It is very likely such a serious injury can occur and shouldn't the most precaution be taken? 8 minute away is not enough, and 1 ambulance is not enough... In Your Corner is right, and I whole heartedly agree with him. I was unfortunate enough to have hit a wall at speed twice this year, and the though of only one person can be tend to at one time bring some pain back to my broken bones...
svstinker proves my point brilliantly. racing is dangerous folks take up knitting if you are that concernred. :up: like i said, you have no problem going to the GNF, and that track is COVERED in concrete block. ststinker's comment was silly. and there is your relevant statement.
I will talk to the proper people about another ambulance. FYI, our on site people were more than prepared for "Trauma" and as stated before, the SECOND ambulance was called for transport and backup while the first was still rolling. I never stated that we were not ready for serious trauma. I would love nothing more to have every racetrack in the country setup like Jennings, or Barber with tons of runoff but unfortunatly that is not the case. We do the best with what we have and we do a good job. This past year I witnessed a man hit a wall at Road Atlanta after a tire failure (during AMA practice). It was even more disturbing to witness than watching Greg last weekend and both times I wanted to barf. Greg had really good care but I see your point on multiple meatwagons. We do have 3 parametics on site but only one onsite truck. Wera's decision not to return was not because of safety issues. If Stinker chooses not to return, God bless him as we don't want people there that don't want to be there. Stinker, if you wish to compare safety of all the tracks in the country, start a new thread. We race in modified Nascar bowls all over this country with walls over 70% of our entire track. Until people start building tracks with motorcycles in mind, these are our realities. If it is not for you then stop racing and quite crying about it. No one has ever forced you to do this and I don't think you have quite the pull of a V. Rossi. You do this for fun right? If it is not fun then don't do it, but for goodness sake, quit bitching about it. You sound like a child.
