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V6 HW through V8 HW Points...

Discussion in 'WERA Vintage' started by Mongo, Sep 16, 2016.

Page 13 of 20
  1. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Mark almost drooled when he realized some of the old Endurance stuff was Vintage legal :D
     
    Mongo, Nov 29, 2016
    #241
  2. Outsider V6 V7

    Outsider V6 V7 Well-Known Member

    Just glad that more people are coming out to support this class. Ray, Wagner and I were getting lonely.
     
    Outsider V6 V7, Nov 30, 2016
    #242
    VFR#52 likes this.
  3. nhammond54

    nhammond54 Hammond Brothers Racing

    Have you ever thought that maybe the reason why you don't have more people racing the whole season is this winner take all BS at the GNF? Still say that every motorcycle racing championship on the face of the planet is a championship of consistently and perseverance. May not be the guy that is the fastest at that one track, but the one that is the most consistent over the course of the season. But like I said before, you make the rules and I just have to choose to work within them or go somewhere else. I guess it just doesn't matter that much anymore. Beat them all year or beat them for 1 race. You make the call.
     
    nhammond54, Nov 30, 2016
    #243
  4. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    There's one major issue with your theory. We have better turnout in our winner take all classes than in our points classes for National Championships. During the season and at the GNF. The WERA Sportsman Series National Champions have been winner take all for 45 years now. So no, not every motorcycle championship rewards consistency and perseverance. We do have championships that do that as well. We have a lot of riders who race for regional championships, on Vintage bikes and on modern bikes.
     
    Mongo, Dec 1, 2016
    #244
    VFR#52 likes this.
  5. VFR#52

    VFR#52 Well-Known Member

    I had always thought that we earn points so we could show up at GNF and race it out for the National title.
    That's what makes it fun.
    But if you don't show up with maximum points for 6 races then you may as well save your money and stay home.
    The flaw is as its has been shown that in some regions only 1 person is on grid while in others you have 5 and all can win on a given day.
    So while 1 racer is guaranteed 20 points just buy showing up.
    The others are taking points away from each other.
    Now this worked if you have 5 or more riders in a region.
    But those days are long gone.
    I proved this last yr.
    The fastest guy will always rise to the race and win.
    But you handy capped a racer with counting 6 best.
    Hammond should have won last yrs HWV7 title.
    He was the fastest and won the races.
    Now if we ran a series where counted all races like the AMA races then it would be different.
    But when dealing with old bikes as we have seen anything can happen.
    Finishing 2nd is worthless when your racing guys in other regions who get a win for just showing up.
    Norman found that out last yr
    But you can loose racers because of it too.
    That's why I stayed home after 2 2nd places.
    I saved money by staying home and would have gained nothing by racing anymore.
    Incentive is gone.

    Steven Isenhower #52
     
    VFR#52, Dec 1, 2016
    #245
  6. 27stormin

    27stormin Well-Known Member

    I think this should be pretty simple. Score this class as either Sportsman or Vintage.(Vintage is not 6 races, it's 4 according to the FRB)
    Personally, I vote for the Sportsman because these classes are run with the Sportsman weekend not the Vintage.

    Sean, what is the current criteria for being invited to the GNF? Is it based on points, entries, or your ability to fog a mirror?
     
    27stormin, Dec 1, 2016
    #246
  7. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    For Sportsman you have to have run the class at some point during the season. Not enough racers these days to worry about turning people away which was why the original top 15 or so rule was in place. It's still only for riders who have raced with WERA during the season though.

    The points championships are open to anyone as they're just another points race.
     
    Mongo, Dec 1, 2016
    #247
  8. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    On the points thing - the current rule is this "The Vintage National Champion will be the rider with the highest point accumulation in their class at the end of the year taking their 4 best finishes for the Saturday Vintage classes and 6 best for the Sunday Vintage classes at any Vintage round throughout the year and adding it to their finsh at the GNF which will count for double points."
     
    Mongo, Dec 1, 2016
    #248
  9. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Typo included :D
     
    Mongo, Dec 1, 2016
    #249
  10. 27stormin

    27stormin Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I don't know how you snuck that in there because it wasn't worded that way earlier this year. ANYWAY, i don't like the 6 races.
     
    27stormin, Dec 1, 2016
    #250
  11. nhammond54

    nhammond54 Hammond Brothers Racing

    Well make the call. Let's try it. Whichever way you thinks makes the most sense for WERA. I will give it a shot. Maybe I will be the first Champion under both scoring systems! ! Lol
     
    nhammond54, Dec 1, 2016
    #251
  12. sPatlovich1

    sPatlovich1 Well-Known Member

    Make it 90 points so everyone has to race 5 races but not have to have 5 wins? I think lowering it would make the gnf better. Come October. Guys who don't have 120 usually don't show up for gnf.
     
    sPatlovich1, Dec 1, 2016
    #252
  13. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    As I told you before, you might have had a prior version cached on your computer.
     
    Mongo, Dec 1, 2016
    #253
  14. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Kind of why I was thinking about making it the same as the Sportsman stuff.
     
    Mongo, Dec 1, 2016
    #254
  15. VFR#52

    VFR#52 Well-Known Member

    And you still handy capped racers who have a full grids and hand racers points who are only one on grid in their region.
    And you just lost out on 4 race entries on Saturday if I run 2 classes?
    So you loosing more than you gain and gained nothing.
    All you did was kill counting 2 races on Saturday.
    Lol.
    Oh well I tried.

    Steven Isenhower #52
     
    VFR#52, Dec 1, 2016
    #255
  16. sPatlovich1

    sPatlovich1 Well-Known Member

    So what exactly are sportsman rules? You just have to run one race throughout the year and you can win a championship? I'm not a fan of that.
     
    sPatlovich1, Dec 1, 2016
    #256
  17. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    See that's just it. You insist you can beat Trautman at the GNF and bitch because he has an advantage with the points since you have to race the Hammonds and so on - well how is you can beat him but not them over the course the entire 3 weekends it would take to get 6 rounds in?
    You keep talking about how many races you could or would enter - yet at the same time you're actively trying to get me to change the rules so you don't have to do as many rounds because of the travel for you (which I get from your point of view and where you are). It doesn't make sense to me.

    What everyone seems to be missing is right now we have nothing. Effectively no entries for Vintage racing. Absolutely not enough entries to justify the existence of the classes - including the V8 class which of course everyone said they had bikes for and would come out and run.

    So yeah, I'm trying to think of things that might help. Making it only 4 rounds to go to the GNF is great - for anyone not wanting to race much during the season. So no net difference than sportsman rules. Leaving it 6 rounds keeps it where ALL of the Vintage classes were prior to me needing to cut a lot of rounds from the Saturday classes to do double headers. Making it so everyone can get to 120 points it's great, I can hand out gold stars too :D But it still makes it winner take all at the GNF. It may encourage a few more entries during the season but I seriously doubt it. Currently with the mindset of most racers I see nothing that will increase participation in classes where working on yoru own stuff is pretty much a requirement. I'm willing to try stuff for sure but doubt anything will work.
     
    Mongo, Dec 1, 2016
    #257
  18. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Essentially yes - if you're fast enough. Not many are.
     
    Mongo, Dec 1, 2016
    #258
  19. VFR#52

    VFR#52 Well-Known Member

    And again you don't understand what I've been trying to say.
    I've NEVER said less races NEVER.
    But by counting only best finishes you just handed anyone and I mean anyone who is only one in their region 20 points just by showing up.
    It's not about me beating anyone.
    It's not about me at all.
    But in order for you Wera to get people to want to race vintage you have to make it fair for everyone.
    Explain how me winning last yr just because I showed and got all my points when Norman didn't have 6 wins and he had to race others in class and both are taking points away from each other fair?
    You still have not solved the problem of only having 1 rider on grid in a region and the points advantage it gives rider.
    As long as you only count 6 best then people will see what I've been saying.
    But you just saved me money and travel expenses.

    Steven Isenhower #52
     
    VFR#52, Dec 1, 2016
    #259
  20. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Well there ya go, glad I could help out.


    :confused:
     
    Mongo, Dec 1, 2016
    #260
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