School me on investing...

Discussion in 'General' started by noles19, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. Sweatypants

    Sweatypants I am so smart! S-M-R-T... I mean S-M-A-R-T!

    Without something like that, you'd just be claiming $3500 a year until you were 460 years old? What other play would there have been? That's insane.
     
  2. HPPT

    HPPT !!!

    Instructed?
     
  3. Boman Forklift

    Boman Forklift Well-Known Member

    Accountant
     
  4. HPPT

    HPPT !!!

    Just wo we're clear, I am making a crucial distinction between "allowed" and "instructed." Are you saying he wanted you to get rid of the records, or he just said you could? Because I would be very curious to hear his reasoning if it's the former.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2024
    Boman Forklift likes this.
  5. Boman Forklift

    Boman Forklift Well-Known Member

    Yea, you are correct. As I recall, they were used at 3k per year for the past 20 years, plus when I sold out of some mutual funds raising cash to buy the business, and or the building, those gains were wiped out against these old losses. Im going off memory, but I think I had 6-700K that was all used up when the commercial building sold. I know my stock account got to 7 figures before I lost it all, but not that i think about it, maybe the losses were only 7-900 because as mentioned i only had 6-700 when the building sold.
     
  6. Boman Forklift

    Boman Forklift Well-Known Member

    The way I remember it, I asked my accountant years ago how long do I keep records for my business and personal taxes. At that time they told me after 7 or 10 years start throwing the old records away. So I still do that. I just can't remember what number we used. At my business every year the last years records (meaning 7 or 10 years ago, but the oldest boxes) are shredded and my wife does the same at home.
     
  7. HPPT

    HPPT !!!

    I get that you would want to get rid of the stuff to make space. But I can't think of a business or legal reason. It's making me curious.
     
  8. auminer

    auminer Renaissance Redneck

    I'm more curious about how you "lose it all". Tell us that cautionary tale if you are able to stomach it. :eek:

    I have 6 figures in a couple of individual equities, and obviously the land... But damn. I would lose my shit over a million dollars. Or even ""only 7-900""
     
  9. Tristan

    Tristan Well-Known Member

    He said " shorting stocks, buying on margin". Otherwise- yeah, just hold until they come back.
     
  10. motion

    motion Nihilistic Member

    Its not that difficult. I lost over 90% on my 401K during the dot com bust. Cashed out the balance and blew it on women. I'm still scared to spend much more than pocket change on the market, except that time about 4 years ago when I went I bought some TSLA... around $70K, only for it TO HAVE ITS BIGGEST EVER DAILY LOSS IN HISTORY THE VERY NEXT DAY. So, I sold it out of fear. haha. Kudos to Linders for keeping at it!
     
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  11. Boman Forklift

    Boman Forklift Well-Known Member

    I explained it on here before. when I have time i will try and find it.
     
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  12. 418

    418 Expert #59

    Buy and hold.

    If you don't have conviction to hold on to the stock you purchased, you shouldn't have bought is in the first place.

    Also this only works if you don't buy shitty hyped up penny stocks/cryopto that are going to go to the moon any second now.

    People don't seem to know that there is a difference between being a investor and a speculator.
     
    Once a Wanker.. and auminer like this.
  13. auminer

    auminer Renaissance Redneck

    Yep. That'll do it.

    I must've missed that post.
     
  14. Boman Forklift

    Boman Forklift Well-Known Member

    Actually I have read in multiple places lawyers and accountants advise setting up a schedule and getting rid of all records after you are legally required to hold them. If for nothing else, when the IRS comes back, like they did to me, you can say they are no longer available, because they have been shredded after meeting the legal time requirements.

    WITH THAT SIMPLE MOVE YOU SAVED YOURSELF COUNTLESS TIME JUMPING AROUND THROUGH IRS HOOPS. I've had multiple audits, most of them are for small checks in certain areas, and my accountant always handles it, and asks me questions after the fact and then we get the info back to him, if it wasn't available with the accountant during the audit.

    My worst was a California Franchise Tax Board thing. Everyone I know in the forklift industry charges no tax on deliveries/freight/transportation/labor. Well probably 10 years ago I got my pee pee smacked when they said deliveries on a tow truck are taxable? I still don't know why, since labor isn't taxable, and freight isn't taxable, and everyone I spoke with in the industry wasn't charging tax, unless they were also busted. It cost me $20-30K in taxes, interest, and penalties, and they wouldn't back down. They saw on my reports how much I was doing in delivery/hauling and spanked me for 3-5 years worth. Cal franchise Tax Board told me to go back bill my customers. There is now way in heck the customers are going to pay that. So I ate it. I still get customers arguing at least once a month there is no tax on delivery and I have to tell them, well I paid a huge penalty that says there is, and if someone isn't charging you, they may come back at you later when they get caught.
     
  15. HPPT

    HPPT !!!

    I can see that strategy working out to secure money you made. But for money you lost, I'm not sure how it benefits you. And your story about the carryforward seems to prove it.
     
  16. ChemGuy

    ChemGuy Harden The F%@# Up!

    Wait. What? You guys keep receipts and records? You mean like vinyl records? WTF?
     
  17. Jedb

    Jedb Professional Novice :-)

    You can use losses in a prior year to off-set earnings in a current year, but the IRS only allows a maximum of XYZ losses to be used in a single year.

    For discussion purposes, let's say I have $10,000 in market losses in a year. And let's say they IRS allows $4,000/year of losses.

    Year 1: If I make $100K, I can use $4,000 of loss from the carry forward, to have my net income be $96K.
    Year 2: etc..
    until the Carry Forward losses are used up.

    In some cases, it might be enough to send you downward to a lower tax bracket. In others, it allows you to minimize your gains & subsequently incremental taxes.
    Say you make $4k in cash in 2024, that Carry Forward would offset that, so you wouldn't have to pay taxes on that.
    ----

    You still lost the money, but it's an accounting way to make it not sting so bad.
     
  18. HPPT

    HPPT !!!

    I may have phrased that poorly. I meant that if The Man comes after you to get some of your money past the time that you're required to keep records, the shredding might help you. If, on the other hand, you need to show The Man that you lost money many years ago and want to use that to offset recent earnings, having shredded the proof is going to make things more difficult for you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2024
  19. Jedb

    Jedb Professional Novice :-)

    I agree with both the things you've said.
    Generally, i'd rather overpay, forego any perceived "interest" and get some of my own money back every year.

    Trying to play paperwork shenanigans will never work out for me.
     
  20. Boman Forklift

    Boman Forklift Well-Known Member

    Well, I don't actually agree. It was part of an audit. They questioned the losses and wanted backup. We proved the losses had been on there since the early 2000's and were being carried forward, as allowed by law. At that point, she dropped all that stuff, and focused on something else. If I remember correctly, I've had these audits at least 7-10 times in my life, they started focusing on my personal expenses and wages and thinking I was hiding income. Fortunately, I was not hiding income, but business had slowed way down during Covid and my expenses didn't, so I was using the line of credit to keep everything going for awhile. Fortunately, I was able to right the ship, and lower expenses, but the IRS was digging for something that wasn't there, and no penalties or additional taxes were owed, that time.

    I do that too. I know it isn't always the smartest way, but I log single no dependents, so I have the best chance of getting money back. I know it is an interest free loan to the government, but it works better for us that way.
     

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