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Discussion in 'General' started by drop, Mar 19, 2023.

  1. Itey

    Itey Well-Known Member

    Heres the unfortunate part, it involves more than just material goods as the guy that went to the right, his son watched the whole thing happen. Its a fucking tragedy.
  2. R1Racer99

    R1Racer99 Well-Known Member

    I agree with both of you. I know I had a similar “Im going to die” moment once and it affected me every time I got on a bike after, there’s definitely more than just the cost of the equipment. But also, I hope there’s a way to get through it without lawsuits. Just fucking sucks all around and for everyone involved, but still thank god it didn’t end up worse.
  3. noles19

    noles19 Well-Known Member

    Oh absolutely but it's still a lot to come up with if you think you don't have to pay anything.
  4. nlzmo400r

    nlzmo400r Well-Known Member

    and then we made it one more time, just for good measure. lol
  5. sbk1198

    sbk1198 Well-Known Member

    Yes, IF they don't do what's right. I'm hoping the responsible people acknowledge that and make things right so it doesn't get to the lawsuits.

    My understanding was that both those riders walked away from the crashes. One went to get checked up at the hospital (I think??) but is fine. So there's no way a quick hospital visit, 2 R1s and a couple of leather suits/gloves/helmets is 6-figures. But whatever the real figure is, they deserve that. My comment was more in relation to cases like that asshole from California a few years back who sued everyone he could think of because he crashed a Ducati and broke his leg at Laguna. Had maybe like $50-60k in damages but he wanted millions of $$. Shit like that is what's going to kill this sport for everyone in the future.
  6. Woofentino Pugr

    Woofentino Pugr Well-Known Member

    When I drove crash at BHF, the crash truck wouldnt come on track until the last bike went by where I was staged. Had a runner make me drive the truck into the grass against the fence. New racer, got chewed out big time for it. Ignored about 5 corner stations waving red. If the T7 worker wasnt watching the guy, I wouldnt had got any warning about the idiot coming up fast on my truck and trailer. I was probably parked only a few seconds before he came flying by.

    We have had the bus on track during a race. Its also part of the riders school to have the bus ride around the track during the mock race so they understand how to deal with it. The driver knows which side they are needed on and head right over to that side once theres a good sized opening for them to safely get there. Ambulance flags go up all around the track instantly. If they cant get the bus off the track into the grass where they are needed (wet grass, muddy,etc) , then they tell us to stop the race. If they dont feel getting on track mid race is safe, they tell us and we stop it. We've hell up guys getting ready to head out in pit out just so the bus can leave the track if need be.
  7. R1Racer99

    R1Racer99 Well-Known Member

    I’ve never understood the ambulance on track thing, even 20 years ago when I took my first race school and it came out during our race it seemed bizarre to me. If an ambulance is needed why would there be any reason not to throw a red flag? Not sure if that’s what happened here, but when safety is such a huge priority, it seems like no vehicle should ever be on a hot track. Just an opinion, sorry if it doesn’t apply to this situation.
    backbone, MELK-MAN, Robin172 and 3 others like this.
  8. noles19

    noles19 Well-Known Member

    It doesn't apply to this situation
  9. Senna

    Senna Well-Known Member

    You're going to need lawyers to draw up a binding agreement like that anyways. Some sort of mediation is probably the way to go.

    If there's no settlement and it goes to court, get ready for $500 track days just to cover insurance. Really just a shit situation all around.
    boxcrash and MELK-MAN like this.
  10. R1Racer99

    R1Racer99 Well-Known Member

    Okay. I was going to edit and say that usually the ambulance isn’t perpendicular to the track so something else must have happened. I retract.
  11. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN The Dude abides...

    long time racer, and MotoAmerica hooligans competitor Arnold Hastings, has hit not one.. but TWO deer at Summit point raceway over the years. Yea, it sucks, and you do crash, but you likely survive, and he wasn't even horribly hurt. they have now put up a high fence that has really helped keep deer out. blood everywhere as they do blow apart.. but you hit an ambulance? at the speeds these guys were going? all bets are off. ;)
    AJ, Jeveritt, tl1098 and 6 others like this.
  12. boxcrash

    boxcrash Loading.....Please Wait

    Thanks Michael for clarifying and I figured WERA did as they have been around for many, many years, so this is not their first Rodeo, as well as First Rodeo at Roebling. I was by no means blaming WERA, it is always people or multiple people that decide to take matters into their own hands. I do not mean maliciously either, people make decisions they think are best for the situation and break protocol thereby creating said sequence of events. Sure mistakes happen, and unless the person(s) have no remorse or apology for what happened, nobody should be executed before a firing squad for it, but a great opportunity for lessons learned, maybe some corrective discipline and a good example of why we have rules and strict protocols.

    It's very sad and disturbing to see what transpired, and sucks to see those two have their weekend ruined by it and possibly even their season(hopefully not their confidence in racing), but Thank you Jesus this all did not end much, much worse.
    Gino230 and Yzasserina like this.
  13. cBJr

    cBJr Well-Known Member

    ToofPic and MELK-MAN like this.
  14. sbk1198

    sbk1198 Well-Known Member

    Damn! That was Tim Wilson?! Never knew he hit a deer in a race. And that's a fast part of the track to be doing that at!
  15. Michael Hausknecht

    Michael Hausknecht Well-Known Member

    I'm seeing a bunch of wrong thinking as to the legal issues and possible outcomes of any claims brought by the two riders arising from this ambulance situation. The facts appear to be that WERA race control instructed the ambulance not to cross the track but the senior EMT in the passenger seat directed the very inexperienced EMT driver to cross the track, and that is what he did. My understanding is that the medical facility is between the gate and the track, so the gate would not have to be lifted for the ambulance to be able to cross the track.

    It seems very clear that the EMT driver and senior EMT were, at the least, negligent in attempting to cross the track and may have acted with "reckless disregard" or "gross negligence". By virtue of the doctrine of "respondeat superior", the ambulance service (the County, is my understanding) is liable for the harm caused by its employees because it arose from the performance of their duties. The ambulance service certainly has liability insurance so, other than any deductible, its insurances company(ies) are the ones on the hook financially. The EMTs may have their own insurance or not, but they are also very likely "insured persons" under the ambulance service's insurance. The harm here is evidently two destroyed motorcycles, riders' gear that may need replacing, and perhaps some uninsured medical expenses and incidentals incurred by the two riders. If there is actual litigation, the riders' attorneys would also seek to recover for "pain and suffering" and punitive damages" "but unless one or both riders want to "win the lottery" (like the bozo who crashed his Ducati at Laguna), those alleged damages won't change the result. As someone who wants to continue to be able to afford to race motorcycles, I hope neither rider takes that approach.

    The track and WERA, either of whom may have been negligent in some fashion (I don't believe WERA was, based on the available facts), are the beneficiaries of the releases we all sign as a condition of using the track and racing. The releases are fully effective as to negligence, assuming they're written effectively (which isn't difficult). The interesting issue here with the releases is whether they are written broadly enough to cover the ambulance service. I hope not but if they do protect the ambulance service from liability for negligence, the determinative issue would then be whether the release(s) also insulate the ambulance service from liability for reckless disregard or gross negligence. That is an issue for Georgia law and, based on this article, https://mason.gmu.edu/~jkozlows/p&r396.htm, it appears the releases won't protect the ambulance service from this level of liability.

    What should happen here is that the ambulance service, likely through their insurance company, should offer to cover the two riders' actual damages (very likely less than $75k, right?) in exchange for a binding settlement agreement with the commitments by the riders not to sue or to disclose the settlement amounts. The riders will, hopefully, make the deal and life will go on. If either or both of the riders are compelled to retain attorneys, the cost of settlement could go up because the attorneys need to be paid and the riders still need to be compensated. Since liability for the ambulance company here seems clear, the insurance company would be wise to avoid a legal battle that would mostly benefit the lawyers fighting it.

    And now the disclaimer: I was an attorney for over 35 years but I'm not any longer, and nothing in what I've written constitutes legal advice and should not be relied on by WERA, RRR, or either of the two harmed riders.
  16. cBJr

    cBJr Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure. I just remembered the incident. It was lucky that the deer slipped and fell to the ground before impact. It allowed the bike/rider to ride over it a little better.
  17. tawzx12r

    tawzx12r Influencer to none

    That Wilson guy is either hard-core or stupid. Maybe a bit of both.
    kubricky, alan, sbk1198 and 1 other person like this.
  18. tawzx12r

    tawzx12r Influencer to none

    That fence was mostly paid for by the car guys…
    The only one from the motorcycle community that would even publicly acknowledge the issue was RRW.
    MELK-MAN likes this.
  19. E-Van

    E-Van Active Member

    The unfortunate part is that attorneys for the insurers could decide to go after any other party they view as being contributorily negligent and then the whole thing spirals out of control. Often times in lawsuits it isn’t even the plaintiff/injured party driving outrageous costs and judgments, it’s the insurers.
  20. Jed

    Jed mellifluous

    I have a neighbor whose 13 pound miniature poodle was accused of biting and causing a fall which allegedly resulted in a knee injury. Her insurance reviewed the claim and an audio recording of the plaintiff telling the defendant "this isn't our first rodeo" referring to a civil suit. Plaintiffs insurance said eff them and denied the claim. HOA insurance (defendant claims to have fallen in a culvert adjacent to sidewalk) said eff them and denied the claim. Plaintiff sued the defendant for 250k and she'd on the hook for her own lawyer and any liability.

    My point -- insurance can deny liability and force the parties to go to court if the injured wants damages.
    Sundaydisco and cha0s#242 like this.

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