Pirelli tire selection

On a side note, anyone have a discount code with CT Race Tires?

 

Yeah, call them directly and negotiate a 20+ order of tires.

 

Chris was very generous to honor the 10% New Year Sale and free shipping, can’t complain about that!

 

Maybe someone here can clear up some info quicker than my infinite websearches with conflicting info,
Does the the Supercorsa V4 SC3 need warmers? I'm looking for a non warmer tire for general track day beginner instruction/marshalling on my second set of wheels. I.e. something like the the Q3/Q5 but Pirelli version. I''m running Pirelli slicks on my other set for racing/solo track days.

 

You shouldn't listen to me, but I'm pretty sure the SC3 tires don't need warmers. It's the same compound/carcass as their DOT.

 

Pirelli Supercorsa SC3 is your answer. Everyone swears by them, including other instructors and etc.

 

Thanks.

 

Yamaha Champions Riding School posted a very interesting post today on social media.

"If your pace during a session is more than 10 seconds off the lap record or varies more than 3 seconds over the course of the session, a DOT tire is a much better choice."

I'm like 20 seconds off track record and ride slicks. Am I crazy for not listening to pros with this tip? Price difference between a set of Superbike slicks is only like $10 more than Supercorsa DOTs.

 

That is a pretty broad statement, but I think it probably holds some merit. My best laps are 12 seconds off record pace at Barber and I had yet to be brave enough to find the limit of a new SC3 on track. I put on a set of Q5's and immediately started feeling it sliding around front and back at the same pace. I quickly put slicks back on and haven't looked back. Now if I wanted to slow down another 8 seconds, I wouldn't hesitate to run the Q5's. But to your point, why would I want to? The slicks are near enough the same cost and I can run warmers.

That is all assuming they're not talking about "DOT slicks" like the DOT SC3. I've not noticed any meaningful difference between those and straight slicks.

 

I just read that and thought it was interesting. Of course, my insight is based on personal experience and no pro. I agree and disagree. MDM may correct me, but I think the Pirelli race tire has a pretty wide operating temp(at least the SC1-3, relatively speaking, and can be adjusted to help maintain heat in the tire for different rider abilities. This, I believe, instills some extra confidence in the rider, It may take more work to get there, but isn't the feeling of confidence really what we are after to go faster? The Dunlop Q tires, even back to the Q3, I thought were a good tire, especially for coaching, but I did go faster and hit the brakes harder on, say, an SC1. I think this is mainly due to the tire being better than me, I could afford to put a little more input into the tires here and there, and the tire could save me where the street tire may not. I could argue this could create bad habits, but I am just trying to race my motorcycle and stay upright at the end of the day.

 

For the non racers or non racing events, do you guys ride on a certain compound or just whatever you guys can get your hands?

 

I've told this story many times trackside to customers asking the same question. It reflects my direct experience on a number of different points and really changed my ideas on how to look at data and performance and went a long way into growing my understanding of tires and performance.

In the (mid/late?) 00s, Pirelli released the 180/60 (vs the 180/55) for 5.5" rim fitment and upgraded from the Dragon carcass to the Diablo carcass. I could not believe how significant the performance increase was. So much so that I exclusively wanted customers to experience the 180/60 Diablo carcass and would do everything I could to get 180/55 users on the new carcass and size.

Around 09 or 10 (maybe 11?), and I only remember this because it was during the first couple years NJMP was in operation, Pirelli released the Diablo Rosso Corsa street tire in a 180/60. I was servicing a lot of track days as well as coaching during that time, and before there was a real segment for dedicated track day/street tires, I thought there would be a demand for a tire that could be used on the street and on the track, without warmers, and offer an incredible level of performance and durability. At the time, most of us (and most track day riders) were using Diablo Supercorsa race DOTs. WSS hadn't gone to slicks yet and the club racing orgs still required DOTs for SS and SSTK, so most people were on DOTs and not slicks because they were legal for all classes.

So I figured I'd get some data and educate myself on the new 180/60 Diablo Rosso Corsa as a viable alternative for customers.

There was another aspect as well. At the time, Champ School was headquartered at NJMP and they were sponsored by another tire company. With a lot of dates and a lot of laps, there were constantly rumors and stories and first hand accounts of pro riders and fast "locals" doing what, at the time, were very fast laps on bone stock R6s on a different brand's Q street tires, which was the standard offering at the Champ School at the time. We were always hearing about how Racer X did a lap time in the low :30s. It fueled the idea that you didn't "need" good suspension. If stock bits and street tires were good enough to break into the :29s, which was much faster than any track day guy was going at the time, and street tires were THAT good, everyone was seemingly wasting their money on suspension and tires.

So I got myself a set of the Diablo Rosso Corsas and put them on my race bike, an R6. While not apples to apples, because this was a fully built race bike and not a showroom R6, I would at least be able to get an idea of how the street tires worked. I did the first session on them and felt them out, made some adjustments to suspension and pressures and then went out and pushed. With some open track, I was able to get a few laps the :30.Xs. I forget the exact time.

Back then, individual forums (like this one) were more utilized than social media (at least, by me). I took to the TD org's forum and wrote up my experience and lap times and wrote a review of the tires based on my first hand information and data. A few customers of mine, whose lap times were in the mid :30s (as in :34s, :35s and :36s) were intrigued by the performance and longevity (and price) of the DRCs vs the Supercorsa race tires they had been using and I had a few sets sold for the next track day.

Two or three guys crashed on those tires that day. And everyone that switched from the race tires to the DRCs went slower. I had some 'splaining to do.

The relevant data was not that Racer X did Y lap time on the other brand's Q tires or that I did lap time Z on Pirelli's DRC.

The relevant data was that, in both cases, the street tires slowed the racers and track day guys down from their fastest race laps on race tires. By about the same margin. At the time, my race laps were about 4-5 seconds faster than I had gone on the DRCs. Fast laps from the guys at Champ School were also about 5-6 seconds faster on race bikes and race tires. That, by far, is more important than what my (or anyone else's) absolute fast lap was on street tires. The street tires were slower. Period.

The guys doing :35s on race tires weren't going to do :35s on the street tires. They should have expected to slow down some. Instead, they went out at their usual pace and without the added grip, performance and margin of error the race tire afforded them, they fell down. The smarter guys slowed down and didn't crash. And I say "smarter" because they didn't take my data, that was factually correct but presented incorrectly, at face value.

Now, certainly, there are diminishing returns the slower the rider is. Does a guy doing his first track day need slicks and warmers and the best suspension money can buy? No. But will an intermediate level track day guy be able to take advantage of a well set-up suspension and race tires and go faster? Absolutely.

Better suspension is better. Better tires are better.

When Pirelli launched the TDs, there was talk about putting Mesa on a set and then doing some dick swinging online about how fast he was able to go on the track day tires. I'm not sure if that ever happened , but, really, who cares? Mesa is fast. Is he going to go faster than just about every track day guy on race tires? Sure. Would he go slower than he does on race tires? Absolutely. I care about how fast Mesa goes on race tires.

A few years ago, the other brand had an ad in RRW celebrating Taylor Knapp getting some high degree of lean angle on a tilted photo in a corner with a ton of positive camber on a Q-something tire. The only thing that photo proved is that Taylor Knapp is good at riding a motorcycle.

 

Very well put @metricdevilmoto , I greatly appreciate your educated response and real work experience. I'll stick to slicks with my mid pack pace.

 

I remember this time well! And my lectures from you "just go faster!" HAHA.

I

 

I said I was a coach. I didn't say I was a good coach.

 

I’m in need of new track day tires this spring.

is the supercorsa sc v3 no longer sold and just the v4 is sold now?

also, I am reading the Pirelli literature and it says the sc3 compound is best for a track day application….im not racing nor leading the pack so I assume the sc3 will be the first one to try

even though they say warmers are not needed, I assume keeping them on warmers won’t hurt, correct?

I have warmers in my trailer already

thanks!

 

So the V3 are getting phased out and the V4 are new. If you want a non-slick type of tire that doesn’t require warmers, the Pirelli Supercorsa SC3 (DOT) is your jam. You don’t need warmers. If you want to run warmers, you can, but you might as well go slicks.

Read conversation above about running TD (DOT) tires versus slicks.

 

The beauty of the SC3(DOT or slick) is that it will do double duty. I treat it as a slick tire and run warmers on the track, but I also run them on my street rides. The biggest clue is that Pirelli's tire pressure chart lists both hot/cold pressures(implying that they can be run with or without warmers) and then they call out instructions for using warmers IF you choose to do so.

Short answer is, no, it won't hurt them a bit to keep them on warmers. They're nice to have when you want to hit the track running, but they can also be a hassle, so it's up to you. Also, don't treat that tire pressure chart like gospel. Talk to YOUR tire guy, not some schmuck like me on the internet.

 

Thanks!

 

I am making the trip from San Diego to Austin to ride at COTA. I want to buy new tires specifically for that trip. I emailed the tire vendor for that event and haven't received a response in regards to compound for that track and time of year. What are you guys running?